The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread

[Black Watch]

The top end talent that isn't already on the MLB roster is coming up in 2019, and it seems ready to contribute for the most part. Pearson is lagging due to injuries but most of the big prospects are in the upper minors or MLB already - Vlad, Bo, Biggio, SRF, Borucki, Alford. How long do you delay contention if you think 3 (!!) years is too fast? You wait longer than that and you end up with another tiny 2 year window and it's over again. And then after waiting 4 years to contend, after one playoff run people will be clamoring to trade Vlad and Bo and whoever else has emerged as a star, so we aren't "stuck" with them in their final season a la Donaldson.

Grichuk/Diaz/McKinney/Teoscar/Giles/Stro/Sanchez is a decent MLB core to work around, although it's obviously lacking stardom. More than just Brandon Drury, for sure. Pillar/Smoak are nearing the end of their time here but are still positive contributors. Gurriel might be an every day MI or might be a bust, though we have Diaz at SS as well (and late 2019/early 2020, Bo, obviously). If not Drury, then Travis at 2B. There aren't any glaring holes on the roster other than the rotation.

Doing what the Astros did, as some would like to see - burning it to the ground for 3+ years - is not an option. They didn't have their top prospects already on the roster, or close to it. They had Keuchel and Altuve come out of nowhere in 2014 to become stars (their final year of tanking) and they brought up Springer in the second half of that lost season, but that was it as far as wasting the prime years of their big guns. As soon as Springer/Correa/McCullers were added to the roster along with emerging superstars Altuve/Keuchel, they were making a (successful) playoff push. Our 2020 season (if not 2019 itself) is more akin to that 2015 Astros season. We simply are not in a position to tank for multiple years. We don't have the hot trash on the MLB roster/upper minors that they did in 2011/2012/2013.

So, as much as some people would HATE for us to try to contend in 2020 (or even 2019 depending how certain guys perform in the first part of the season) it looks like it has a good chance of happening. Personally, I'll take 6 years of a 35% chance of playoffs (with the opportunity for more) vs tanking for 4 years in order to get 2 seasons with a 70% chance (if we're lucky). I have zero interest in tanking for the first 3+ years of Vlad is on this team.

Good argument. You almost have me convinced. But are you saying we should be trading for more pieces if we're somewhat competitive in 2020?

[Tanner]

I mean, working for Rogers can't be a lot of fun, but yeah...whatever directional meddling they do has nothing on the Wilpons, who make all of the major baseball decisions. And Rogers might not spend as much as we'd like, but they're nowhere near as cheap as the Wilpons. Their long-term payroll situation isn't atrocious, but $55m in 2020 for Cespedes, Wright and Bruce at 34, 37 and 33 respectively will be a hindrance, and they have very little to spend this offseason after arb raises.

If they actually jump ship for that **** disaster, the state of the Jays is even worse than any of us imagined. Being Mets management is one of the worst jobs in sports, because it comes with all the profile and none of the influence.

Yeah, I think there’s truth to Shapiro being frustrated with Rogers, and maybe vice versa (optics for the Jays are bad atm) but I can’t see him leaving for one of the worst owners in sports. I could maybe see him staying for two more years (rest of his deal) and then going elsewhere. The Jays job after the 2020 season should be very desirable thanks in large part to Shapiro and Atkins.

[Skin Blues]

The top end talent that isn't already on the MLB roster is coming up in 2019, and it seems ready to contribute for the most part. Pearson is lagging due to injuries but most of the big prospects are in the upper minors or MLB already - Vlad, Bo, Biggio, SRF, Borucki, Alford. How long do you delay contention if you think 3 (!!) years is too fast? You wait longer than that and you end up with another tiny 2 year window and it's over again. And then after waiting 4 years to contend, after one playoff run people will be clamoring to trade Vlad and Bo and whoever else has emerged as a star, so we aren't "stuck" with them in their final season a la Donaldson.

Grichuk/Diaz/McKinney/Teoscar/Giles/Stro/Sanchez is a decent MLB core to work around, although it's obviously lacking stardom. More than just Brandon Drury, for sure. Pillar/Smoak are nearing the end of their time here but are still positive contributors. Gurriel might be an every day MI or might be a bust, though we have Diaz at SS as well (and late 2019/early 2020, Bo, obviously). If not Drury, then Travis at 2B. There aren't any glaring holes on the roster other than the rotation.

Doing what the Astros did, as some would like to see - burning it to the ground for 3+ years - is not an option. They didn't have their top prospects already on the roster, or close to it. They had Keuchel and Altuve come out of nowhere in 2014 to become stars (their final year of tanking) and they brought up Springer in the second half of that lost season, but that was it as far as wasting the prime years of their big guns. As soon as Springer/Correa/McCullers were added to the roster along with emerging superstars Altuve/Keuchel, they were making a (successful) playoff push. Our 2020 season (if not 2019 itself) is more akin to that 2015 Astros season. We simply are not in a position to tank for multiple years. We don't have the hot trash on the MLB roster/upper minors that they did in 2011/2012/2013.

So, as much as some people would HATE for us to try to contend in 2020 (or even 2019 depending how certain guys perform in the first part of the season) it looks like it has a good chance of happening. Personally, I'll take 6 years of a 35% chance of playoffs (with the opportunity for more) vs tanking for 4 years in order to get 2 seasons with a 70% chance (if we're lucky). I have zero interest in tanking for the first 3+ years of Vlad is on this team.

Good argument. You almost have me convinced. But are you saying we should be trading for more pieces if we're somewhat competitive in 2020?

A lot will happen before 2020, so to say for sure what we should be doing at that point would be way too premature. If we're competitive and favourites to grab a playoff spot then sure. Not like mortgaging the future type of trades (I didn't like the Price trade even when we were likely to win the division, and the Tulo trade didn't look great at the time either). But the types of trades that got us Diaz, Grichuk, etc are the types of trades that work well at any point.

[Wo1verine]

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Gibbons way better manager when it comes to Wedge IMO.

Anyways i called Wedge being our next manger the minute he was hired here - Hopefully it doesn't happen.

[polo007]

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There has been growing speculation that Blue Jays president Mark Shapiro is a target of the New York Mets, who are looking to fill their president of baseball operations/general manager position. The speculation took on a life of its own when reports surfaced that there may be tensions between Shapiro and Blue Jays ownership. I was skeptical when I first heard the rumors and have since confirmed that there is no substance to the story.

As president of the Blue Jays, Shapiro oversees both baseball and business operations. That isn’t the level of responsibility that the Mets are looking to fill. The Mets’ CEO is Jeff Wilpon, son of owner Fred Wilpon. Jeff’s responsibilities are similar to those that Shapiro has in Toronto, just with a different title. Shapiro wouldn’t leave the Jays for a lesser role and I promise you that Jeff Wilpon isn’t relinquishing any of his responsibilities.

Plus, the tensions referenced in Toronto are just part of normal everyday managing of a business. Sure, there are disagreements and differences, but none of them are overwhelming – certainly not to the level to chase Shapiro out of Toronto. The Jays president has every intention of finishing what he has started and hopes to bring a championship north of the border.

Fred and Jeff Wilpon will likely be calling Shapiro, but it will be to talk about a couple of his employees. The Mets reportedly have interest in Blue Jays baseball executives Ben Cherington and Tony LaCava. Both are VPs in the baseball department and are well respected in the industry.

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[polo007]

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The next core, to be largely made up from players developed in the farm system, will for better or worse be built to his vision. He fully owns what happens from now on.

“I believe that to win in the American League East, you need to outperform objective expectations,” Shapiro said Friday during a 40-minute conversation with writers who cover the team. “I believe that to beat teams that play in some of the biggest markets in all of Major League Baseball, under the MLB system that doesn’t share revenue evenly, that has no salary cap, that we need to not just play to our level of performance, we need to play great baseball. To do that we need to be a team and to do that we need to have players that outperform expectations. Those players are high-character, tough, resilient and good teammates."

“That’s what we’re trying to build here.”

The expectation is that Shapiro, whose contract runs through the 2020 season, will remain in place to oversee that process, despite a report this week from Joel Sherman of the New York Post suggesting he’s a candidate for the New York Mets’ GM vacancy. While Shapiro didn’t totally kill the speculation – why waste any leverage for a potential extension? – he didn’t sound like someone with a foot out the door, either. “This is where I want to be,” he said.

A more immediate matter is the future of GM Ross Atkins, whose deal is up after the 2019 season and who barring any surprise changes will be getting an extension, one that likely takes place quietly behind the scenes and doesn’t get announced. Atkins will need some term behind him to hire any manager of consequence to replace John Gibbons once the season ends, and you’d expect that Shapiro won’t send him into the search process without solid footing.

That stability will also play during forays into the open market, although Shapiro implied that the club’s payroll, which started the year at roughly $163 million and has since shed about $13 million through trades, will be lower next year, which to an extent is the natural by-product of a roster trending younger.

While he said that the payroll hasn’t been set for 2019, he added, “I’m confident that where the payroll is at will have zero impact on our ability to execute our off-season plan.”

[polo007]

https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/simmons-camp-coming-clock-ticking-on-nylander-contract

Blue Jays beleaguered president Mark Shapiro was asked directly about the story going around that the New York Mets have interest in him. He said he wouldn’t comment on that specifically. Which is odd. Because all he had to say was: I’m not going anywhere, so you can forget about the Mets. He didn’t say that … There are people around Major League Baseball who actually believe Shapiro, with strong ties to the Wilpon family which owns the Mets, may have been the source of his own rumours. Question is: Why? … The next time you hear or read a Rogers media employee making a strong case regarding the job Shapiro and general manager Ross Atkins have done, ask yourself this question: Is that their opinion, or are they adhering to company policy? Recently, Sportsnet president Scott Moore sent out a memo to staff which included an ardent defence of the work Shapiro and Atkins have done, all but saying to give the guys a break. Which is basically an insult of sorts to the many professionals who work for him.

[Cyrus]

So do you think we hear anything regarding any sort of upgrades / remodel talk on the Rogers Centre / skydome in this offseason? Forget all the grass talk that his predecessor mentioned, just any tangible items they can work on.

[AbC?]

As someone who only cares about the Jays if they make the playoffs, what is the NBA equivalent of the Jays right now? I remember watching the press conference for Shapiro and getting BC vibes.

[polo007]

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CARLSBAD, Calif. – Powerful agent Scott Boras took aim at the Toronto Blue Jays, among other clubs and the wider baseball industry, Wednesday afternoon, attributing their sharp decline in attendance to the kind of players they’ve added to the roster.

Speaking at his annual media session during the General Managers Meetings, Boras resumed his attacks on how teams have operated in recent years, connecting the rebuilding/tanking approaches employed by some clubs for driving fans away from the game.

The Blue Jays experienced the sharpest drop in attendance in the majors this past season, going from 3,203,886 fans in 2017 to 2,325,281, a decline of 878,605 fans.

"Toronto is a wonderful city, it’s been a great franchise, they’ve drawn three million fans," Boras told an especially large media gathering. "They’ve lost near a third of their fan-base due to the ‘Blue Flu’ of not bringing attractive players that their fans find interesting to their market."

[Black Watch]

Seeing the past three seasons in context now, not just with the future of the Jays, but also with what the rest of the league has done/become, I am very impressed with Mark Shapiro.

[polo007]

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[Natural11]

He avoided that nicely. The common sense answer to that is the payroll will be low while the team is bad and attendance is weak. If or when our young players break out and look like we can build a winner around them, odds are it will be an easier sell for them to get more money out of Roger's.

Anyone they sign this offseason will be from the clearance bin at the dollar store.

[polo007]

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If anybody was at all uncertain any more about how this is going to go now, the release of shortstop Troy Tulowitzki this week was the final nail in the coffin that contains all the belief and excitement that was breathed back into the franchise in 2015 and 2016.

This was scorched earth stuff. Tulowitzki was hurt most of the time he was with the Jays, but when he played he was at times very effective, and beyond that, he was a high-profile, highly-paid veteran player. It cost $38 million (U.S.) just to make him go away.

Dumping him was the same as moving captain Dion Phaneuf was to the Maple Leafs. A symbolic statement as much as anything. Gets everybody’s attention.

A move that tells the world winning games is no longer the immediate priority, and tells the fans it’s time to view visiting the ballpark as a chance to view young players who might be reliable regulars some day. And to watch the other team.

This is going to take a while. The Boston Red Sox won 97 games in 2013, then dipped to 71 and 78 wins the following two years while demolishing one roster and building another, then got right back into the thick of things in 2016 with 93 wins. A superbly executed turnaround.

The Blue Jays are going to spend longer in the hinterland than that. There were the last two wasted seasons (76 and 73 wins) and now, we’re guessing, at least three more outside the post-season before Jays fans can even seriously consider the possibility of October baseball again.

[polo007]

Toronto Blue Jays President and CEO Mark Shapiro joins TSN's Scott Mitchell and says that the new facility in Dunedin, Florida should help prepare the team, and in turn translate into wins on the field. Shapiro also says once the Toronto Blue Jays are on the cusp of a title run, payroll will rise to supplement homegrown talent.

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/shapiro-payroll-will-rise-once-jays-are-on-cusp-of-contention%7E1568782

[polo007]

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He said he expected the available 2019 payroll would remain about the same; last year it was $167 million, 11th in MLB. But he also intimated that Atkins probably would not spend that amount, given the youth movement in progress and the shedding of significant salaries for Josh Donaldson ($23 million) and Troy Tulowitzki ($20 million), along with J.A. Happ and Marco Estrada ($13 million each).

After the coming season (or perhaps earlier), Russ Martin’s $20-million salary will come off the books, along with $12 million for Kendrys Morales.

“I think we have more flexibility than any team in Major League Baseball after next year,” Shapiro said.

“That doesn’t mean we’re not going to spend. We are going to spend. That just means Ross and our baseball-ops group have a lot of flexibility as to where they allocate the dollars and when they do it and how they do it. That’s an advantage.”

Shapiro was team president for his last five years in Cleveland, but before that his entire career was in baseball operations. That background has left some to wonder whether he has been pulling Atkins’ strings on key roster decisions over the past three years.

No, he insisted. He contributes but does not dictate. Atkins has the last word, he said.

“We do everything collaboratively,” he said of his baseball operations staff.

“I have immense respect for how consuming that (GM) job is, how hard it is to make good decisions, how much time goes into those decisions and how disruptive they can be for someone to come in with one anecdotal opinion and kind of reverse a decision because of his role or his position,” he said. “So when I insert myself into that process it’s largely individual conversations with Ross. It’s not walking into a room and kind of saying, ‘This is who we should sign.’”

His primary focus is on the process used to make decisions and continually evaluating and updating that process.

Asked how his relationship with Rogers has changed in his three years of running the Blue Jays, Shapiro replied: “It’s gotten better.”

Meaning, one might conclude, that it’s gotten better under Natale.

Originally, Shapiro said, he reported to Rick Brace, head of the media division that includes the Jays. Now, he said he reports directly to the top – to Natale, chief financial officer Tony Staffieri and chief human resource officer Jim Reid, with “direct involvement from Edward (Rogers) as well.” Rogers is the chair of the company’s board of directors and, among his other duties, is also chairman of the Blue Jays.

Of his relationship with the company brass, Shapiro said: “I think there’s a strong feeling of understanding and support, and empowerment more than anything.”

[BigLeagueChew]

Dunedin stadium is getting a major facelift, the Rogers centre roof is being completely replaced, need to fix waterproofing with any cemented areas that are cracking then they'll start changing different areas of the dome.

[C Court]

More than a few members of Toronto sports media were very critical of Shapiro when he was cleaning house. Now Alex is doing the same thing in Atlanta. I trust Toronto media will be outraged.

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[Myth11111]

The whining people do about our media is ridiculous. The truth is they probably do suck but so do all of you.

[C Court]

The whining people do about our media is ridiculous. The truth is they probably do suck but so do all of you.

They suck, but so do all of you.

Insightful. Thanks for sharing.