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2019-20 Offseason Thread

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#441 » by I_Like_Dirt » Thu Jan 9, 2020 1:49 pm

BigLeagueChew wrote:I think technology is a big issue. Go into a dugout and they have screens with replays from any game. Get rid of the replay system as well as any tech in the dugouts or an office behind the dugout. If you want to replay something, do it on your own natural instinct.


Technology is definitely the issue but in my view the problem comes when you start trying to play a middle ground regulatory system because it's basically impossible and teams just ignore it anyway. Once you're at the point where you have management calling in orders to the dugout while viewing from up high, you basically have to decide between banning all fans from bringing any cameras and phones into the game (ridiculous) while heavily policing what is and isn't taped and that it's strictly for television purposes (not workable) or starting to let stuff go because it's so easily exploitable. If you feel strongly that pitchers and catchers should be allowed a form of secret communication, you give them other methods to do so because signs simply won't work anymore. Anything else and you may as well give up unless you enjoy endless hand-wringing and moral grandstanding. And if you're going to have replays using technology, drawing an arbitrary line that you can't use technology to decide how much you're going to use technology is going to prove futile. Tell managers and coaches they can't have cell phones in the dugout? Good luck with that.


Thinking about it a bit, I think it's time to get proactive. The simple way to avoid sign stealing is robot pitchers. We're going to have robot umps anyway, so it's a natural next step. Teams can try to steal the radio signal but they won't be able to respond soon enough to a human batter. So naturally, to make it fair, we'll need robot batters, too, and since batters play in the field, we'll have robot fielders. Then we'll realize that it's entirely an AI game anyway so we may as well just have it virtual game of sorts - in video form. But we'll realize that we've lost some of the human element there so will decide to enforce human players, to control the batting and pitching at least. Then we'll notice they're rapidly jerking their controllers around trying to get into the action and we'll end up with:

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The future came and went and we haven't even noticed it yet.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#442 » by agkagk » Thu Jan 9, 2020 5:46 pm

dagger wrote:
agkagk wrote:
fbalmeida wrote:Darkhorse wildcard contender on the back of budding young core and breakout pitching, or excessively optimistic?


If we had signed Edwin for a year or two I’d say yes.

Unless we see stark improvement from over a third of the roster, flirting with .500 is the best case scenario.


I don't think Edwin would have made much difference. He's purely a DH now, and we have no shortage of guys who can be rotated through DH. In fact, rotating these guys was thought to be a feature, not a bug, providing them with a semi-rest day.

What concerns me is an outfield comprised of sub-optimal talents, save for Gurriel in between his long injury absences. If there was even one above average defender in the group, I'd sacrifice some offence on the premise it would help our pitchers to have a guy in centre in particular, but also in the alleys, who can flag down at least one or two balls per game our current outfielders can't get to in time.



Agreed we have a ton of major holes.

Since I was a preteen I’ve been of the belief that the dh spot should be utilized by rotation.

But that doesn’t make sense when 2/3rds of your hitters are sub replacement.

The argument that Edwin would take at bats from young hitters doesn’t hold weight, because the reality is, most of our young players will prove to not really be worth the investment (especially at 1st).

We have Vladimir, bo, gurriel and a bunch of guys who are more likely to be demoted than breakout.

Love Cavan; but is he a significantly better prospect than, say, Ian happ?

Jansen is nice, but if he’s hitting 190 in may would anyone be surprised?

Now for the elephant in the room: rowdy tellez— he’s incredibly likeable and easy to root for, but, can anybody see him ever being more than a cj cron type, aka an annual dfa candidate that’s never worth his arbitration price.

Read through our roster, there’s no 9th or 10th man to reward with dh bats and there are no veterans to give “half days” off.

So why burn a year of eligibility for bo and vlad? We aren’t tanking. why not use the dh spot to provide stability and a veteran pillar/leader — this helps insulate Cavan, teoscar and Jansen instead of anchoring them with drury, Alford and rowdy.

We need some veterans hitters. Now if there is no trade for a veteran center fielder incoming, we need to find a veteran that is more impactful then Justin smoak. Shaw, Roark and ryu simply aren’t enough.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#443 » by BigLeagueChew » Thu Jan 9, 2020 6:15 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
BigLeagueChew wrote:I think technology is a big issue. Go into a dugout and they have screens with replays from any game. Get rid of the replay system as well as any tech in the dugouts or an office behind the dugout. If you want to replay something, do it on your own natural instinct.


Technology is definitely the issue but in my view the problem comes when you start trying to play a middle ground regulatory system because it's basically impossible and teams just ignore it anyway. Once you're at the point where you have management calling in orders to the dugout while viewing from up high, you basically have to decide between banning all fans from bringing any cameras and phones into the game (ridiculous) while heavily policing what is and isn't taped and that it's strictly for television purposes (not workable) or starting to let stuff go because it's so easily exploitable. If you feel strongly that pitchers and catchers should be allowed a form of secret communication, you give them other methods to do so because signs simply won't work anymore. Anything else and you may as well give up unless you enjoy endless hand-wringing and moral grandstanding. And if you're going to have replays using technology, drawing an arbitrary line that you can't use technology to decide how much you're going to use technology is going to prove futile. Tell managers and coaches they can't have cell phones in the dugout? Good luck with that.


Thinking about it a bit, I think it's time to get proactive. The simple way to avoid sign stealing is robot pitchers. We're going to have robot umps anyway, so it's a natural next step. Teams can try to steal the radio signal but they won't be able to respond soon enough to a human batter. So naturally, to make it fair, we'll need robot batters, too, and since batters play in the field, we'll have robot fielders. Then we'll realize that it's entirely an AI game anyway so we may as well just have it virtual game of sorts - in video form. But we'll realize that we've lost some of the human element there so will decide to enforce human players, to control the batting and pitching at least. Then we'll notice they're rapidly jerking their controllers around trying to get into the action and we'll end up with:

Image

The future came and went and we haven't even noticed it yet.


Other sports use cameras but baseball is unlike other sports. The pitcher-catcher-hitter aspect is more than half the game and requires some form of a signal 100-300 times per game total from both sides.

Figuring out the other teams signs in real time is fine, that part of the game but being able to use a recording or another set of eyes outside of the actual game is just stupid in my opinion.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#444 » by polo007 » Thu Jan 9, 2020 6:50 pm

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#445 » by vaff87 » Thu Jan 9, 2020 6:59 pm

Can we really trust the Farrell family?
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#446 » by polo007 » Thu Jan 9, 2020 10:47 pm

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#447 » by Black Watch » Thu Jan 9, 2020 11:19 pm

agkagk wrote:Love Cavan; but is he a significantly better prospect than, say, Ian happ?

Cavan is significantly better than Ian Happ. Biggio has not just better plate discipline, he's also an elite defender and a plus-plus baserunner.

Don't sleep on Cavan.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#448 » by BigLeagueChew » Thu Jan 9, 2020 11:37 pm

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#449 » by Black Watch » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:13 am

It's going down...

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#450 » by polo007 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:58 am

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#451 » by Lateral Quicks » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:39 am

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I live in a world where Brandon Drury gets $2.05M to play baseball. The guy has produced a negative WAR 5 out 6 years in the bigs. How does he still have a job?
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#452 » by phillipmike » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:06 am

Lateral Quicks wrote:
BigLeagueChew wrote:
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I live in a world where Brandon Drury gets $2.05M to play baseball. The guy has produced a negative WAR 5 out 6 years in the bigs. How does he still have a job?


He was a top 100 prospect on many lists.

He only played 5 seasons. I count 3 negative fWAR seasons.

Rookie year was 20 games so that doesn’t count for me. Two seasons ago he was shut down more than once with multiple injuries including migraines which can be a killer.

I’ll give him a mulligan on his rookie year and two seasons ago.

Last season he has no excuse. This is make or break for his career as a Jay this year.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#453 » by polo007 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:54 am

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#454 » by Lateral Quicks » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:40 pm

phillipmike wrote:He was a top 100 prospect on many lists.

He only played 5 seasons. I count 3 negative fWAR seasons.

Rookie year was 20 games so that doesn’t count for me. Two seasons ago he was shut down more than once with multiple injuries including migraines which can be a killer.

I’ll give him a mulligan on his rookie year and two seasons ago.

Last season he has no excuse. This is make or break for his career as a Jay this year.


I know he's dealt with migraines, and I sympathize - but not to the point of paying him $2M to play terrible baseball for another year. I guess management feels like he showed enough in 2016/2017 to deserve another shot, but I hope his rope is short this year.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#455 » by The_Hater » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:42 pm

phillipmike wrote:
Lateral Quicks wrote:
BigLeagueChew wrote:
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I live in a world where Brandon Drury gets $2.05M to play baseball. The guy has produced a negative WAR 5 out 6 years in the bigs. How does he still have a job?


He was a top 100 prospect on many lists.

He only played 5 seasons. I count 3 negative fWAR seasons.

Rookie year was 20 games so that doesn’t count for me. Two seasons ago he was shut down more than once with multiple injuries including migraines which can be a killer.

I’ll give him a mulligan on his rookie year and two seasons ago.

Last season he has no excuse. This is make or break for his career as a Jay this year.


Talented players also break out in baseball all the time and when you least expect it, the list we could make would be endless. If the Jays let Drury go and he had a break out season somewhere else, Shatkins would never here the end of it. The commitment here isn’t expensive.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#456 » by I_Like_Dirt » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:14 pm

BigLeagueChew wrote:Other sports use cameras but baseball is unlike other sports. The pitcher-catcher-hitter aspect is more than half the game and requires some form of a signal 100-300 times per game total from both sides.

Figuring out the other teams signs in real time is fine, that part of the game but being able to use a recording or another set of eyes outside of the actual game is just stupid in my opinion.


I guess, but there's literally no way to enforce that kind of thing. My post was tongue in cheek but generally letting everything go is at least workable. The only other large-scale workable option is what MLB is doing right now where they have a rule that's almost never enforced because nobody ever gets caught and then teams will adjust and do things in ways that aren't getting caught and so on and so forth. This option allows for the appearance of caring while also the advantages of not really having to police much of anything unless someone catches someone else and it catches on in the media. Technology is spreading, not receding. Baseball is going to have to figure out a different path than peeing into the wind on this one and from the sounds of it, with the technology they're discussing, it sounds like they generally understand as much, too, even if all fans don't.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#457 » by phillipmike » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:24 pm

Lateral Quicks wrote:
phillipmike wrote:He was a top 100 prospect on many lists.

He only played 5 seasons. I count 3 negative fWAR seasons.

Rookie year was 20 games so that doesn’t count for me. Two seasons ago he was shut down more than once with multiple injuries including migraines which can be a killer.

I’ll give him a mulligan on his rookie year and two seasons ago.

Last season he has no excuse. This is make or break for his career as a Jay this year.


I know he's dealt with migraines, and I sympathize - but not to the point of paying him $2M to play terrible baseball for another year. I guess management feels like he showed enough in 2016/2017 to deserve another shot, but I hope his rope is short this year.


He was highly regarded, and had some bad luck. This will likely be his last chance with the Jays so the leash will be short.

Many other teams have paid worse players more money on a gamble. 2M is a drop in the bucket if he is at a minimum, a utility if he hits his stride.

2M is the going rate for utility infielders. We paid Darwin Barney almost 3M and Drury has much more upside.

I see no harm giving him a 2nd second chance at 2M.
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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#458 » by polo007 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:24 pm

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

Post#459 » by BigLeagueChew » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:02 pm

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Re: 2019-20 Offseason Thread 

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