The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread

[Schad]

Why don't they need grass?

Seems like Rogers likes to penny pinch on everything yet spend an insane amount on a moronic hockey TV deal.

Corporations, like sports fans, love big flashy deals when more prosaic improvements might be more advisable.

[ldnk]

I feel bad for Shapiro at this point. I don't like the direction/vibes I'm getting from the franchise. I think part of it is on Shapiro because I do think that he came in/sold himself as a "I can do it more efficiently" guy. But he's really left out to dry by a pretty **** ownership group. The offseason moves are things that anger the casual fan and the bandwagoners who haven't really paid attention tot he Jays over the last 15 years.

The statements about grass are pissing me off as someone who has followed the team consistently. We have been sold the whole grass thing for a decade now. We finally get the Argos out of the dome and it's magically not a high priority now. Screw off Rogers.

[Randle McMurphy]

So no grass now huh?

It's like Shapiro/Rogers are doing everything they can to make me not want to go to a Blue Jays game.
I seriously don't want to spend a dollar on this organization but I want to support the players.

Beeston fed some bull**** on that issue for a while like a good soldier, but there was never going to be any grass and that has absolutely nothing to do with Shapiro. It would have cost Rogers too much for something the Jays don't need.

Why don't they need grass?

Seems like Rogers likes to penny pinch on everything yet spend an insane amount on a moronic hockey TV deal.

How is grass on the field to help the players going to make them more money? It's an unnecessary expenditure, one with not nearly enough benefits to make it worth the cost to them.

[duppyy]

So no grass now huh?

It's like Shapiro/Rogers are doing everything they can to make me not want to go to a Blue Jays game.
I seriously don't want to spend a dollar on this organization but I want to support the players.

Beeston fed some bull**** on that issue for a while like a good soldier, but there was never going to be any grass and that has absolutely nothing to do with Shapiro. It would have cost Rogers too much for something the Jays don't need.

Why don't they need grass?

Seems like Rogers likes to penny pinch on everything yet spend an insane amount on a moronic hockey TV deal.

Rogers is regretting that NHL deal.

[Schad]

How is grass on the field to help the players going to make them more money? It's an unnecessary expenditure, one with not nearly enough benefits to make it worth the cost to them.

Not enough up-front benefits. Beyond whatever (probably minimal) gains it'd produce from making the stadium seem less like a giant bowl of artificiality, keeping the team a bit healthier would probably be a sound investment. However, those are nigh-on-impossible things to apply a dollar figure to, whereas the cost of installing grass comes with a hefty up-front price tag.

[Randle McMurphy]

How is grass on the field to help the players going to make them more money? It's an unnecessary expenditure, one with not nearly enough benefits to make it worth the cost to them.

Not enough up-front benefits. Beyond whatever (probably minimal) gains it'd produce from making the stadium seem less like a giant bowl of artificiality, keeping the team a bit healthier would probably be a sound investment. However, those are nigh-on-impossible things to apply a dollar figure to, whereas the cost of installing grass comes with a hefty up-front price tag.

There's been talk that it would take somewhere between 200-400M to do it. Yeah, they're definitely not paying that.

[Schad]

How is grass on the field to help the players going to make them more money? It's an unnecessary expenditure, one with not nearly enough benefits to make it worth the cost to them.

Not enough up-front benefits. Beyond whatever (probably minimal) gains it'd produce from making the stadium seem less like a giant bowl of artificiality, keeping the team a bit healthier would probably be a sound investment. However, those are nigh-on-impossible things to apply a dollar figure to, whereas the cost of installing grass comes with a hefty up-front price tag.

There's been talk that it would take somewhere between 200-400M to do it. Yeah, they're definitely not paying that.

Earlier estimates were quite a bit lower. Yeah, $200-400m isn't happening. That's a large down payment on a new stadium.

[polo007]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/LottOnBaseball/status/677647702767886336[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BKennedyStar/status/677670347559321601[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BKennedyStar/status/677674323331686400[/tweet]

As long as football was in, grass was out.

As a result, fans looked forward in anticipation of the move to a field of dreams in 2018 when the Argo lease expired. But when the Bills experiment died and the Argos moved out early, the expectation was that grass might just be installed sooner.

Full-speed ahead. Yes! Natural grass and the Jays at last.

The reality is this — artificial turf is simply a bad playing surface. There are reasons why only two franchises — Toronto and the Tampa Bay Rays — still have phony grass as their playing surface of choice. The game of baseball, as we know and love it, sucks when played on the fake stuff.

Jays vice-president Tony LaCava stated on Thursday he had watched home games in previous years in which a groundball through shortstop had gone all the way to the fence and that with the new turf that was installed for 2015, that doesn’t happen. He said the current turf is almost like grass; that comparison to the real stuff is simply not true.

Now, with no football and a clear opportunity to compete with other teams in major-league baseball for the hearts and minds of free agents, and with the chance to save the physical pounding on their own players, Shapiro and the Jays appear to be waffling and moon-walking towards the status quo. The aging scoreboard and shoring up the concrete are bigger priorities.

The fans want a grass surface. The players want a grass surface. Whenever there is a team with a superstar position player in town for a series, you can be certain his manager will choose the Jays series to rest that player and not subject him to the turf. Blue Jays fan pay to see major-league stars but don’t always get that opportunity.

The Jays even paid researchers at Guelph University to find and develop the best, the hardiest grass with which to use for the much-anticipated new surface. So Thursday’s comments no doubt disappoint Jays fans.

In the space of two months, fans here have gone from the thrill of Jose Bautista’s flip of the bat to the agony of Mark Shapiro’s flip of the bird.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Globe_Sports/status/677628105427705856[/tweet]

The installation of natural grass at Rogers Centre was almost a given under the old Toronto Blue Jays’ regime headed by Paul Beeston, who said repeatedly that he would like to have it in place by the 2018 season.

Now that he is running the baseball club, Mark Shapiro is adopting a more cautious approach, saying natural grass is just one of a list of expensive infrastructure undertakings that will be looked into.

“We’re going to have to prioritize,” Shapiro said on Thursday when asked if the 2018 timetable for indoor sod is still on track. “It’s like anything in life, you’re not going to be able to do the entire laundry list. On that list likely will be grass, once we are certain it can be done, and then understand the cost implications of doing it.”

Shapiro said it would be improper to suggest that the transition to grass is something he is throwing dirt over.

“I didn’t say that,” he said. “I said you need to have a firm handle on what the entire scope of capital projects that you want to accomplish are. With that will be some infrastructure that has to happen in order to keep the building functional.”

Those projects would include ongoing improvements to the roof, concrete work to prevent leaks, new seats and perhaps even a new scoreboard.

“They’ll be things that need to be dealt with,” Shapiro said. “There won’t be an option. And then there will be a list of other things that directly impact fans and those would be the way we configure the seating bowl, the amenities within the ballpark.”

Grass, he said, will be one of the things to consider “along with the cost associated with it.”

Shapiro did say that dirt basepaths are a distinct possibility for Rogers Centre, with installation a possibility for the 2016 season.

[mini]

Take it for what it's worth, but I've hung out with a guy who does grass for BMO, as well as various other Dome events/golf courses/etc. and he has said that there is no way they were ever realistically going to do grass in the Dome. He's been saying this for years. He says they'd have to tear-up the concrete floor and build major drainage leading hundreds of metres south of the Dome, change the lighting, and even the way the dome itself opens.

He's always been saying this and with these reports now I'm more inclined to believe him (especially if the 200-400 million price tag being reported is true)

[C Court]

The first thing that should be done is to replace the seats and paint the upper bowl for the first time since Skydome opened.

[Santoki]

Take it for what it's worth, but I've hung out with a guy who does grass for BMO, as well as various other Dome events/golf courses/etc. and he has said that there is no way they were ever realistically going to do grass in the Dome. He's been saying this for years. He says they'd have to tear-up the concrete floor and build major drainage leading hundreds of metres south of the Dome, change the lighting, and even the way the dome itself opens.

He's always been saying this and with these reports now I'm more inclined to believe him (especially if the 200-400 million price tag being reported is true)

I never believed a word that came out of Beeston's mouth about grass. These guys spent 5 years paying lip service to the fans but never delivered on their promises. Shapiro will take the PR hit once again but it shouldn't come as a shock once Beeston kept pushing the date back year after year.

At the very least though I would like to see a dirt cutout but maybe with our defense they want the playing surface to play slowly. With the new turf we didn't see anyone break down with injuries due to it so maybe they feel comfortable enough with it for now.

[C Court]

One of the top priorities on the Rogers front that needs to be done and doesn't matter to fans is the complete modernization of the Blue Jays business practices. Apparently, under Beeston and Alex the Jays were run of the back of a napkin. There were few, if any, organized business and reporting processes in place under Paul and Alex. Beeston ran the organization like it was still 1982. Alex had a 'frantic' management style that needed a major upgrade. Apparently, they Jays are far behind the office technology and organization curve and Beeston didn't even like using something as basic as email.

[tecumseh18]

I never believed a word that came out of Beeston's mouth about ...

... anything. I know he's a popular guy in baseball circles, but I've always found him to be completely disingenuous. So the carping and complaining about Shapiro and his style strikes me as odd.

But the latest iteration of the fake grass seems to be acceptable. JD lasted the season in good shape, and so far Tulo hasn't been affected by it (it's not what injured him in September). Speaking of which, Pillar certainly wasn't afraid to bounce off of it throughout the season. So the grass issue seems to be moot right now. The real test will be if we can get free agents to sign here despite it. But as the Beatles once said, "we need money first."

[Lateral Quicks]

As a fan I'd prefer the games were played on grass, but the bigger concern is playing surface impact on player health. The new turf seems to be much better in that regard, though it means we now see a rubber pellet explosion with each footfall or bounce of the ball. If that improvement hadn't been made, there would be a lot more urgency around improving the playing surface.

I wonder if they're going to look at the cost to demolish the Dome. New stadiums have gone up in the past decade for as low as ~$350-400M. If you could tear down the Dome for $200M, that option would get intriguing. Of course that would leave them without a facility for at least one season, and probably two, so that's likely a non-starter.

[Raps in 4]

Beeston fed some bull**** on that issue for a while like a good soldier, but there was never going to be any grass and that has absolutely nothing to do with Shapiro. It would have cost Rogers too much for something the Jays don't need.

Why don't they need grass?

Seems like Rogers likes to penny pinch on everything yet spend an insane amount on a moronic hockey TV deal.

Rogers is regretting that NHL deal.

They deserve it. I hope it bankrupts them.

[Raps in 4]

As a fan I'd prefer the games were played on grass, but the bigger concern is playing surface impact on player health. The new turf seems to be much better in that regard, though it means we now see a rubber pellet explosion with each footfall or bounce of the ball. If that improvement hadn't been made, there would be a lot more urgency around improving the playing surface.

I wonder if they're going to look at the cost to demolish the Dome. New stadiums have gone up in the past decade for as low as ~$350-400M. If you could tear down the Dome for $200M, that option would get intriguing. Of course that would leave them without a facility for at least one season, and probably two, so that's likely a non-starter.

New stadium would have to be in a new location (probably suburbs), which would suck. I'd much rather put up with an ugly stadium in a prime location than a nice stadium in the middle of nowhere.

[ldnk]

As a fan I'd prefer the games were played on grass, but the bigger concern is playing surface impact on player health. The new turf seems to be much better in that regard, though it means we now see a rubber pellet explosion with each footfall or bounce of the ball. If that improvement hadn't been made, there would be a lot more urgency around improving the playing surface.

I wonder if they're going to look at the cost to demolish the Dome. New stadiums have gone up in the past decade for as low as ~$350-400M. If you could tear down the Dome for $200M, that option would get intriguing. Of course that would leave them without a facility for at least one season, and probably two, so that's likely a non-starter.

New stadium would have to be in a new location (probably suburbs), which would suck. I'd much rather put up with an ugly stadium in a prime location than a nice stadium in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah I don't think they are going to go away from the Dome any time soon. The issue I would have is that coats of paint shouldn't be viewed as massive upgrades. Things like a new scoreboard seem far more irrelevant than grass, fixing the roof or replacing the seats. If rather they focus on quality upgrades than fluff if it isn't going to go into a new turf.

[The Duke]

Having grass at the Rogers Centres, makes the ball fly out to the stands better.

[LLJ]

LOL. Shapiro getting butt-flucked by the media so far.

It's Roger's world. And we're all living in it.

[C Court]

As a fan I'd prefer the games were played on grass, but the bigger concern is playing surface impact on player health. The new turf seems to be much better in that regard, though it means we now see a rubber pellet explosion with each footfall or bounce of the ball. If that improvement hadn't been made, there would be a lot more urgency around improving the playing surface.

I wonder if they're going to look at the cost to demolish the Dome. New stadiums have gone up in the past decade for as low as ~$350-400M. If you could tear down the Dome for $200M, that option would get intriguing. Of course that would leave them without a facility for at least one season, and probably two, so that's likely a non-starter.

New stadium would have to be in a new location (probably suburbs), which would suck. I'd much rather put up with an ugly stadium in a prime location than a nice stadium in the middle of nowhere.

A new ballpark would have to built in the downtown core. Needs to be near transit and accessible to all residents. Plus downtown Toronto and its condo population provides a nearby base of fans.

Only the NFL can succeed with stadiums in the suburbs. Virtually every new MLB park has been built downtown or near downtown.

That said, Rogers Centre is going to home to the Jays for at least a decade or more before a new ballpark is even considered.