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Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:48 am
by j127
Adonis Cardona Close To Agreement With Blue JaysThe Blue Jays are close to signing Venezuelan righty Adonis Cardona, according to ESPN.com's Keith Law. The prospect can't officially sign with the Blue Jays until the July 2nd signing period opens. The terms of the deal aren't clear, but some July 2 free agents do sign seven figure deals. As Law points out, such early agreements do not always hold up.
The Blue Jays have pursued international free agents aggressively under GM Alex Anthopoulos, bidding on Aroldis Chapman and signing shortstop Adeiny Hechavarria.
Who? Some guy who commented on MLB Trade Rumors suggested that he's not even 17 yet.
Any information on this guy. The only information I could find in 5 seconds was a bunch of links to this very bit from MLB Trade Rumors and the ESPN Insider thingy.
2010 IFA Thread: Jays agreement w/ Venezuelan RHP?
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:48 am
by -MetA4-
According to ESPN Insider's Keith Law, more than one source has indicated that the Toronto Blue Jays are close to an agreement with Venezuelan right-handed pitcher Adonis Cardona, who is not eligible to sign a formal contract until July 2nd, the signing date for international free agents who turn 16 by this summer.
The loose-armed Cardona has been a mainstay of Venezuelan teams at youth baseball tournaments since at least 2006.
These pre-signing date agreements don't always hold up -- the Rangers reportedly had locked up Guillermo Pimentel last year, but he ended up signing with Seattle - although word is other teams' scouts are getting the brush-off from Cardona's camp.
We'll update as we hear more, including more details on the young righty.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:01 am
by -MetA4-
We're approaching the July 2nd International Free Agent date; at which point teams are allowed to sign 16 year old International kids.
News and reports on these prospects will become more available as we approach that date. What can I tell you about Cardona? Nothing other than that the fact that we are hearing about this now strongly suggests that:
1) This kid will be one of the "top" kids signed
2) It will be a big money signing
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:48 am
by -MetA4-
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:44 pm
by Alfred
Merged threads.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:28 pm
by Schad
Wow, we're really doing this.
He'll take an eternity at best, and 16 year old pitchers have a frighteningly high bust rate, but we need to do some gambling.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:04 pm
by Alfred
It's great that we're finally deciding to build the team the right way. Drafting, signing and developing prospects. It's also nice that we have a decent core of good young players on good contracts. That's the reciepe for competing in a division that contains the Yankees and the Red Sox.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:56 pm
by RocLaFamilia
Alfred wrote:It's great that we're finally deciding to build the team the right way. Drafting, signing and developing prospects. It's also nice that we have a decent core of good young players on good contracts. That's the reciepe for competing in a division that contains the Yankees and the Red Sox.
Can we sign AA as GM for the Leafs and Raps? This guy may be realllly good.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:05 pm
by Hendrix
Schadenfreude wrote:Wow, we're really doing this.
He'll take an eternity at best, and 16 year old pitchers have a frighteningly high bust rate, but we need to do some gambling.
Every prospect helps.
How much does a prospect like this get?
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:47 pm
by Schad
Hendrix wrote:Every prospect helps.
How much does a prospect like this get?
If he's in the top tier, could be $1.5m - $2.5m, roughly equivalent to a mid first-round pick. If they're blowing off other teams, probably toward the upper end of that range.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:48 pm
by Randle McMurphy
RocLaFamilia wrote:Alfred wrote:It's great that we're finally deciding to build the team the right way. Drafting, signing and developing prospects. It's also nice that we have a decent core of good young players on good contracts. That's the reciepe for competing in a division that contains the Yankees and the Red Sox.
Can we sign AA as GM for the Leafs and Raps? This guy may be realllly good.
I shouldn't have to remind anybody that most fans liked Ricciardi during his first 4 years with the Jays. Then the reality of the team's situation sunk in.
I do like the idea of taking more risks with high-ceiling players, though.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:08 pm
by Schad
Randle McMurphy wrote:I shouldn't have to remind anybody that most fans liked Ricciardi during his first 4 years with the Jays. Then the reality of the team's situation sunk in.
I do like the idea of taking more risks with high-ceiling players, though.
Same. It does bear repeating that there's no guarantee that AA's aggression and willingness to spend on kids that are years away will pay off any more than Ricciardi's strategy did; we were a pretty good team before the rebuild, just not a team that stood any chance in the East.
But if we're to have any chance of making the playoffs by 2020, this'll have to be the model...we're going to have to make gamble after gamble after gamble on kiddies in the draft, we're probably going to have to have a quick trigger on trades with our current major leaguers so that we don't have people peaking in waves, and we as fans and the organization itself need to have to have the patience to stick with the script when many of the kiddies bust, as they inevitably will. And even then there's a solid chance that we'll come up short, unless the Rays prove unable to retain their talent.
Going even further off tangent, one thing that might ultimately level the playing field slightly (and I mean slightly) is the trend toward locking up kiddies long-term before they hit their arb years. At least then, the Yanks and Sox don't get them 'til they're 31-32.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:09 am
by -MetA4-
Randle McMurphy wrote:I shouldn't have to remind anybody that most fans liked Ricciardi during his first 4 years with the Jays. Then the reality of the team's situation sunk in.
Ricciardi's strategy was a lot more difficult to implement in this division, as it still focused on Moneyball-type moves. We were producing a lot of decent players, then after a while we had to take the risk and spent on free agents, which didn't work that well.
Given constant financial backing; the "spend a ton of money on scouting and development" strategy that Anthopolous is implementing is a lot more likely to work out.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:45 am
by WpgPage
that is a very over the top delivery almost no arm angle at all, interesting but with only 8 seconds had to do anything more that speculate hopefully he develops nicely....Dam I love this hole drafting and scouting thing we should have been doing this for years...
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:12 am
by jalenrose#5
Yeah, just by looking at those videos, I don't see him as a starter but more of a setup or closer type of pitcher. His curveball is a very nasty 12-6, and it looks like he can top out near 95 mph with a fastball for a 16 year old..insane arm if you ask me.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:55 pm
by Michael Bradley
It has only been a few months into AA's tenure, but I already think he is better than Ricciardi was in 2002-04. Or at the very least, I feel more comfortable in a rebuilding situation with AA overseeing things. The upcoming draft will really tell the story. AA has a much more diverse outlook on player evaluation. He took a polished talent like Brett Wallace in the Halladay deal, but also insisted on Drabek in the same deal, took a chance on Morrow (very raw), signed Hech (big risk), swung for the fences with Chapman (missed out), saw breakout potential in d'Arnaud, etc. Whereas Ricciardi was going after the Prokopec's, Arnold's, Miller's, Hinske's, etc. To me, it is a floor vs. ceiling argument with JP and AA. I think AA looks at ceiling whereas Ricciardi looked more at floor. JP's philosophy was much more likely to net a decent player, but AA's has a better chance of netting a star or two, and the Jays need the latter if they want to compete in the AL East.
As far as Cardona, chances are we won't be hearing about him for another five years as far as prospect status. These guys take a very very long time, if they develop at all.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:27 pm
by -MetA4-
jalenrose#5 wrote:Yeah, just by looking at those videos, I don't see him as a starter but more of a setup or closer type of pitcher.
LMAO.
Come on man, this kid is 16 years old. Trying to peg ANYTHING onto him right now is fairly ridiculous. If we end up signing him it will be under the intention on working with him to be a starter.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:20 pm
by Hoopstarr
I was just as excited about JP's philosophy as I am now about AA, and the majority of Jays fans felt the same way in 2002 or else they're damn liars. It was just a different time. Boston and New York weren't as far ahead in payroll, Moneyball 1.0 was en vogue, over slot picks weren't the big deal they are now, teams were less protective of assets, the free agent market wasn't as efficient, and the Jays ownership wanted to cut costs. All the dumb management paradigms of a decade ago seem so silly now but they made sense then. Now it's Moneyball 2.0 and all of those things have change, and Rogers is willing to do whatever it takes, which is great. But like I've said earlier, AA will have to be practically perfect and lucky to come out on top of the East.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:46 pm
by Michael Bradley
Hoopstarr wrote:I was just as excited about JP's philosophy as I am now about AA, and the majority of Jays fans felt the same way in 2002 or else they're damn liars. It was just a different time. Boston and New York weren't as far ahead in payroll, Moneyball 1.0 was en vogue, over slot picks weren't the big deal they are now, teams were less protective of assets, the free agent market wasn't as efficient, and the Jays ownership wanted to cut costs. All the dumb management paradigms of a decade ago seem so silly now but they made sense then. Now it's Moneyball 2.0 and all of those things have change, and Rogers is willing to do whatever it takes, which is great. But like I've said earlier, AA will have to be practically perfect and lucky to come out on top of the East.
I was excited about JP coming in, but his moves early on were nothing like what AA is doing now both in terms of potential impact and philosophy. AA is rebuilding by signing or acquiring very young/raw projects with high bust potential (but equally high upsides). Ricciardi was trying to draft advanced college players that would filter up the system at a rapid fire pace. AA's philosophy is far less likely to produce MLB players at a rapid pace but far more likely to produce impact talent if they pan out. That is why I never understood why people would say "look how many draft picks JPR promoted", as if it were an accomplishment to have players reach the Majors rather than actually do something productive when they get there.
Look at it this way: if the Jays had the equivalent of Kelvim Escobar circa 2001 on the current team, would AA use him as a starter or a closer? Considering he is allowing Brandon Morrow to walk 700 batters this season in the hopes of future progress, I'd guess "starter". Ricciardi's first move was to convert Escobar to a reliever in 2002 and trade Koch to Oakland, despite Escobar showing a ton of development as a starter at the end of the 2001 season. Then he tried Hinske at 3B for a few years, before finally conceding that he was not a 3B defensively (ditto Russ Adams). On the flip side, it took AA all of 10 seconds to say he was moving Brett Wallace (a far more hyped prospect than Hinske) to 1B for defensive purposes. It is stuff like that which in hindsight show how little foresight JP actually had in terms of the bigger picture, and how much better AA is at determining talent.
Then again, I thought JP actually improved as a whole from 2006-onwards (free agent signings aside), whereas many think he was better in 2002-05.
AA will have to be damn near perfect and lucky to build a true contender in the East, but the moves he is doing now are a good start. Again, his first draft will really tell the story.
Re: Adonis Cardona
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:05 pm
by -MetA4-
Sources saying $2.8 million for Cardona. That is a huge amount and basically assures that he will be one of the top 2-3 IFA free agents this year.