Who else thinks Litch should go to AAA for rehab

[baulderdash77]

He's clearly where he was or should be. I'm afraid that we're ruining him by keeping him up and letting him get torched.

In the meantime we could be seeing Rep, Steward or Mills who have their A game competing for us.

If this team had a decent 5th starter then we're be in the thick of of this year.

[Avenger]

you mean you don't like his 16:15 K/BB ratio? or his 7 homeruns in 46 innings? I had a easier time watchng Brian Buress and his BP "fastballs", i just can't stand this fatass. I honestly wouldn't even waste a minor league rotation spot on him but since its Vegas where pitchers go to die, it might not be a bad idea, i never wanna hear from him again. Jessie Litsch is back to being the noodle armed terrible pitcher all the sane people expected him to be, this is not a surprise to anyone but Mike Wilner and Randle

[tsherkin]

I think Randle does have a point, though... Whenever people rip on Litsch, he's quick to remind them that he's a command pitcher, and that command is the last thing to come back from TJ surgery. He's definitely not good right now, and he needs time throwing the baseball somewhere else to help get that command back. It's also true that in his good season, we had two considerably superior defenders compared to what we have now (Rolen at 3B and Rios in RF).

Bautista isn't bad at 3rd when he's there, but there's a difference between a good utility fielder (I'm talking about his defense, not saying he's just a uty guy in general, duh) and a 7-time Gold Glove third baseman, right? So some of the drop-off we have is certainly influencing Litsch. You can't really say it's THAT huge, though, because his baBIP against is only .284, which is only like 5 points higher than it was in 2008.

But you can see in his other peripherals that he's not the same as he was then. More walks, more homers (and worse than league average, too), his average game score is under a quality start, he's got a GB/FB under 1.0 (and like .14 worse than in 2008), though his GO/FO is still better than average... he's not throwing a lot of strikes (59%), not getting ahead in the count (8% below league average in 0-2 counts) and he's getting hit a lot, 84% contact and a crap-tactular WHIP are definitely unpleasant things.

I mean, he's been awful this year, and with some consistency, but we can see the reason for it; his command isn't there. At all. If you watched that 5-4 loss to Cleveland yesterday, he was missing down a lot, missing outside, like he was afraid of and incapable of hitting the zone when he needed to. And maybe this isn't new, but his motion looks jerky and awful.

Litsch isn't a power pitcher; he's got a middling fastball, and he's been losing velocity, I think. Yesterday, he was sitting around 87, 88 most of while I watched, and he normally averages around 90. It is possible, though, that he was throwing the cutter more; from where I was sitting, I couldn't see lateral movement for beans, and his cutter averages right around 87 mph; the two-seamer as well, if I'm not mistaken. Given that he throws it something like once every five pitches, that could well be it. In any case, it wasn't working very well for him.

"Noodle-armed" is pretty bad to say, but yeah, there are something like 60 or 70 other starters with superior fastball velocity and he certainly doesn't come armed with great, sweeping stuff or overpowering velocity. Command is what he uses to do anything, and when it's not there? Yeah, he sucks.

But when he's healthy, he did show that command, so I guess we gut out the rest of the season with him to see if it starts coming back. If it doesn't, we can get rid of him, but right now, it doesn't much matter, does it? The only thing he's doing is hoarding innings that could be going to Scrabble.

[number15]

Cut "Jesse Litsch" or Die trying!!!!!!!!!!!

[U_Mad]

a stint in AA should be next for Litsch

[aligator]

I think we have to bring up Brad Mills to see if his last start was for real or an abberation. I realize there is a 10 day waiting period but that should be just about the time of Litsch's next rotation turn. It does appear that Jesse has little chance of a future with the Jays.

[Hoopstarr]

you mean you don't like his 16:15 K/BB ratio? or his 7 homeruns in 46 innings? I had a easier time watchng Brian Buress and his BP "fastballs", i just can't stand this fatass. I honestly wouldn't even waste a minor league rotation spot on him but since its Vegas where pitchers go to die, it might not be a bad idea, i never wanna hear from him again. Jessie Litsch is back to being the noodle armed terrible pitcher all the sane people expected him to be, this is not a surprise to anyone but Mike Wilner and Randle

Really, you had a easier time watching Brian Burres?? I'm not going to claim Litsch is a good starter. He largely begs, borrows, and deals his way to around 6 IP against average to bad teams. Anywhere but the AL East and he'd be a #4 or 5 on most teams. Him being a command pitcher, it's totally unfair to rag on him after coming off TJ surgery. It used to take at least 18 months for recovery so 12 months is nearly a miracle. He's not going to get the steady starts he needs to work his way back, but if he did, I bet he gets right back to the pitcher he used to be, which is an above average command pitcher with great efficiency and fielding for his position.

[WpgPage]

I agree to early to write him off after TJ surgery, I would send him to Vegas for now and bring up Zep then I would shut down Marcum at 130-150 innings and start him on his winter program early hes getting close to his all time innings high and i think you start to run the risk of damaging his arm if you push him past that. There was some speculation that the Jays would run a 6 man rotation near the end of the season which I think would be a great idea
Start with:
Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Zep
Mills
and then as you get closer to the end of the season start to shut down Romero, Morrow and Cecil as they pass there IP highs and move in guys like Ricky Ray, Jo Jo Reyas, Litch maybe Stewart and Drabek for a start or 2. This should help JPA out as well as he can start to get a feel for some of these guys while still having Molina and Buck around to help him out. (assuming Cito actually plays him instaed of making him ride the pine and then pinch run in the 8th)

[CapeCrusader]

Yeah Litsch is loooong overdue back to the minors. Rzep and Mills would be good calls ups...we could even bring up Richmond, Litsch seems like hes turning out to have a good season or two and then turn into the lastest Chacin for us.

[tsherkin]

which is an above average command pitcher with great efficiency and fielding for his position.

I know one freak event is meaningless in the overall context, but it was hysterical to watch him fall on his ass against the Indians and to hear someone jeer at him about his Gold Glove fielding, lol.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

I just don't think he's that good. But he should be better than this. I agree, he should be in the minors, working out the kinks.

[Raps_Swingman]

Litsch needs to hit the salad bar, his stamina is terrible

[ItsDanger]

He needs to lay off the big macs.

[baulderdash77]

When he's healthy and his control is good, he's a decent #4/#5 starter. I'm not ready to write him off yet since he's still coming back from TJ surgery. But I think it's too early for him and he's losing us games and taking away PT that could be spent on some other guys.

[SCF99]

not even the fact that he is doing us no good with his hit and miss stuff,if some of the young guys are putting in innings in the lower levels they might as well be putting in innings up here and seeing if they are ready for the big times. It is not doing any thing for JL getting smacked around here trying to get his game in order under fire. It would put a bit of a buzz in us faithful followers if we would get to see K-dra, mills, stewert, or some of the other young arms in the system.

[Randle McMurphy]

you mean you don't like his 16:15 K/BB ratio? or his 7 homeruns in 46 innings? I had a easier time watchng Brian Buress and his BP "fastballs", i just can't stand this fatass. I honestly wouldn't even waste a minor league rotation spot on him but since its Vegas where pitchers go to die, it might not be a bad idea, i never wanna hear from him again. Jessie Litsch is back to being the noodle armed terrible pitcher all the sane people expected him to be, this is not a surprise to anyone but Mike Wilner and Randle

I wouldn't have a problem with sending Litsch down for Rzep, but please stop making ridiculously poor arguments without any basis in fact. I understand that you have a lot of hate for this guy, but you know better.

[Raider917]

i wasnt a big fan of litsch pre tommy john. im no less of a fan now. i think its ok using him now if drabek isnt ready yet. i hope when someone in the minors is ready that he will be replaced. i really like this rotation if drabek takes his spot.

[victor page]

Is it just me or does Litsch seem to have more trouble in hot weather and later on in games? I don't want to jump to conclusions because he's got love handles, but maybe there really is something to the lack of conditioning angle.

I think he'll be a useful bottom of the rotation guy for some MLB team(s) for many years once he regains his command. He continues to battle when he's getting hit hard, which is what you need out of your fifth guy. You don't need your fifth starter in the showers by the 3rd inning like Bryan Buress or any of those other schmucks the Jays threw out there in the mid 2000s.

[Lateral Quicks]

Based on Litsch's track record pre-surgery, he caa be a more than capable 5th starter in the major leagues. It's pretty clear he's not living up to that track record right now. Ordinarily I'd say let him play out the year, but we have multiple guys with better stuff knocking on the door. I'd prefer to see Mills, Rzep, or even Drabek in that role to close the year, as I fully expect to see one of them as the 5th starter to start next year (and if AA decides to trade one of the stud SP for some help at 1B,3B, or the OF, two of them will be in there).

[tsherkin]

As much as I'm completely uninterested in Litsch continuing to pitch for this team, it would behoove us to see if he can iron out the kinks in his game so that he can up his value. Then we can move him (he's still fairly young) for something more compelling. It's not like we need to batten down our rotation right now, given where we are in the rebuilding stage, and as others have noted, we've got talent on the up.