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Im not denying that JP had his faults or that he did some stupid things, but I wonder how good he could have been if he had access to the kind of cash AA does. I think Avenger/Hoopstarr (sorry always get you guys confused) posted a link where he said that JP's team overachieved/had a Pythagorean record much higher than their record.

Take a look at the all the guys JP drafted.

Adam Lind, Aaron Hill, Travis Snider, Marcum, Litsch, Romero, Cecil and Arencibia look like legit big leaguers and some of them can become potential stars.

He also picked up some really good bullpen guys like Scott Downs.

Did he draft the college guys because they were more reliable and easier to project or because he didnt have the cash to select big upside/big salary demanding guys?

To the best of my knowledge, he never had the coin to go after guys like Hech or Cardona. I dont think he had the coin to significantly upgrade the scouting department and other things (like increasing food allowances for minor league players and giving scouts more time with their family.)

Now, this is a hypothetical. Ownership watched the Jays be a middling team for 8 years before they committed to a full rebuild, and there are questions about whether they would have trusted JP with this kind of money, but its an interesting thought no?

EDIT: This isnt a defend JP thread. He was clearly past his due date and he was a disaster PR wise. Im just wondering how good he could have been because his draft picks were good.

Are the Jays still paying BJ Ryan?

yes actually they are 10 million this year

He'd spend it on Frank Thomas.

Seriously, he'd probably do pretty good... then again, probably most major league GM's would hit a few triples with a big draft budget. But really, once you get down below the 4th or 5th round, its surprising how few impact players are unearthed... Blow it all on the first 5 rounds is my philosophy...

darth_federer wrote:Did he draft the college guys because they were more reliable and easier to project or because he didnt have the cash to select big upside/big salary demanding guys?

Both.

I posted this article last week about his draft success even before all these guys we are seeing right now, btw:
http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?st ... 6224402822

Now, this is a hypothetical. Ownership watched the Jays be a middling team for 8 years before they committed to a full rebuild, and there are questions about whether they would have trusted JP with this kind of money, but its an interesting thought no?

I'm not sure if it was a question of "trusting him" as much as they just didn't want to spend it, but I was pretty critical of Rogers during the last few years of JP's run here (the final straw for me was letting Rios go for nothing). The Jays were a very good team from 2006-2008, and I don't think the opportunity was fully capitalized on by ownership (especially in 2008, when they played the season without an actual productive hitter at DH after they released Thomas after 2 weeks of baseball).

Still pissed we let rios go.... it was ownership probably

Yea it's unclear how much the lack of spending had to do with JP's direction or Rogers not wanting to spend. Probably a bit of both, but it's hard to believe a GM turning down money. It's also unclear if the commitment to spend again after Beeston came on was because of Beeston himself or because Ted Rogers died.

SharoneWright wrote:He'd spend it on Frank Thomas.

Seriously, he'd probably do pretty good... then again, probably most major league GM's would hit a few triples with a big draft budget. But really, once you get down below the 4th or 5th round, its surprising how few impact players are unearthed... Blow it all on the first 5 rounds is my philosophy...

Albert Pujols says hi...

Okay, I know what you mean... it's rare to find big-leaguers deep in the draft

SargentBargs101 wrote:Still pissed we let rios go for free.... it was ownership probably

Fixed. I get you, but Rios was causing more problems for the team and fans. The way he was playing before his departure, I think it almost justified him leaving for nothing to drop his contract.

No-one talks about it, but last season didn't we also let one of the best third basemen (when healthy, and he was) in the majors go for arguably less than nothing. I'm sure not the prospects in return are all that great, and EE is a mixed blessing, especially when Bau could be holding down third until it all eventually gets sorted out between the Cubans, Hill and, uh, Thon.

This team plus Doc, Rolen and Rios = not a bad team at all. Weak farm system though, but who do we blame for that?

tecumseh18 wrote:No-one talks about it, but last season didn't we also let one of the best third basemen (when healthy, and he was) in the majors go for arguably less than nothing.

Zach Stewart was rated as our best/second best prospect by a number of publications. Hasn't had a great season, but if starting doesn't work he'll be a very good back-of-the-bullpen guy.

SargentBargs101 wrote:Still pissed we let rios go.... it was ownership probably

Rios is having a nice season but if he was still in the picture, Jose Bautista might not of had the chance to play everyday.

JP did have a lot of money at a certain point in his tenure. He chose to spend it on free agents. That is the difference between him & AA.

Wait, am I missing something? JP had a $100 million payroll when he was here.

raps4life~ wrote:Wait, am I missing something? JP had a $100 million payroll when he was here.

Yeah...don't even get me going. Nobody spent money like JP did. So much was wasted as well. And he jacked up all the ticket prices to offset. Complete disaster IMO.

A payroll budget is not the same as a draft budget; you can't just spend what was given to you for FAs on the draft. JP was given a higher payroll starting in 2006 and it was implied there would be more to come or it would at least stay steady. Instead, within 2 years Rogers was already penny-pinching again. Other GMs don't have to compensate for mistakes almost immediately after making them. They get to write them off and move on like AA will be able to now.

Hoopstarr wrote:A payroll budget is not the same as a draft budget; you can't just spend what was given to you for FAs on the draft. JP was given a higher payroll starting in 2006 and it was implied there would be more to come or it would at least stay steady. Instead, within 2 years Rogers was already penny-pinching again. Other GMs don't have to compensate for mistakes almost immediately after making them. They get to write them off and move on like AA will be able to now.

This is all true, but don't you think JP could've spoken to Ted and co. and had it redistributed if he wanted to prioritize spending money on drafting? It's not like Rogers told AA we're upping your draft budget, he asked for the payroll splits to change, or I guess it could've been something Beeston did before too. Either way I don't think management would've been against allocating extra money for a drafting strategy if JP had fought for it. I'm not even trying to fight about JP's record or anything, just saying as they opened up new money, JP thought he was closer to the goal than he was 'cause he went the AJ/BJ or Big Hurt route and I think he could've had some of that money for larger draft signings and internationals if he'd wanted it (obviously only some as that money is PR for the big club as much as anything). Although, as far as internationals go, I do remember the year we tried to corner the market on Taiwanese pitchers, those guys worked out awesome.

JP came in promising to do exactly what AA did - the only difference is that AA has (to this point) remained committed to the strategy of replenishing the farm system. They are both getting money to spend, both for the same purpose - the only difference is that Ricciardi blew his load in one offseason on high-priced free agents, essentially aborting his "5-year plan". You can't say that JP didn't have access to this kind of money - his payroll went up every year - and he still complained that "we don't have enough to compete with the Yankees" (while the Rays went to the world series by following the plan Ricciardi sold to get hired in the first place).

The guy had his chance, and he blew it. He was a decent GM, and probably could have produced some playoff teams in a weaker division. However, he wasn't what we were sold on - a savvy guy who would build the team from the farm up and help us have sustainable success against those monster spenders without trying to outbid them for free agents. Here's to hoping AA has better luck and more resolve to stick with his initial plan - in my opinion, he is spending his money in the right places.