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OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:38 pm
by LittleOzzy
The Nationals will receive their clearest indication yet about the status of Stephen Strasburg's right arm today after the 22-year-old rookie undergoes an arthrogram exam.

The Nationals will not receive the results until Friday and will then make their decision on Strasburg.

The arthogram will reveal if anything else is amiss with Strasburg's forearm/elbow area.

"He'll do everything he can to throw 97 miles per hour," the doctor said, speaking in general terms. "It sets up a red flag. You look for a sign in his delivery. Why is this happening? It's something you've got to ask."



http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ ... ie_season/

So sad, his first game I will never forget. I hope the kid can fight through the injuries and have a solid career. I don't remember many rookies getting the type of hype he created after just a few pitches.

Re: OT: Strasburg May By Forced To End Rookie Season

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:19 pm
by jnorris
Shutter Down.

The Nationals would be stupid to bring him back for the rest of the season, at this rate his arm isn't going to last that long, they have to make good use of him while he can still throw.

Re: OT: Strasburg May By Forced To End Rookie Season

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:40 pm
by jnorris
@MarkZuckerman Rizzo: #Strasburg MRI shows significant UCL tear, probably requires TJ surgery.

Re: OT: Strasburg May By Forced To End Rookie Season

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:43 pm
by J-Roc
What was that Mr. Dibble??

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcspor ... .html#more
Ok, you throw a pitch, it bothers your arm, and you immediately call out the manager and the trainer? Suck it up, kid. This is your profession. You chose to be a baseball player. You can't have the cavalry come in and save your butt every time you feel a little stiff shoulder, sore elbow.

Re: OT: Strasburg May By Forced To End Rookie Season

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:51 pm
by MGD24

Re: OT: Strasburg May By Forced To End Rookie Season

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:03 pm
by Raps_Swingman
Tommy John surgery. Luckily he's still young but that really sucks. The kid was huge for the Nats and the game of baseball, hes definitely a once in every 10 years talent.

Re: OT: Strasburg May By Forced To End Rookie Season

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:36 pm
by Randle McMurphy
Mark Prior.

Re: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:45 pm
by Michael Bradley
Just goes to show how unpredictable pitchers are, regardless of how cautious teams are with them (the Nats were very cautious with Strasburg).

Good thing for him is the recovery rate for TJS is pretty good, and if he gets it done now he'll likely be ready for 2012.

Re: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:48 pm
by Schad
Better the elbow than the shoulder, but he's probably going to need to learn how to live at 94 rather than 98.

Re: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:50 pm
by tsherkin
Schadenfreude wrote:Better the elbow than the shoulder, but he's probably going to need to learn how to live at 94 rather than 98.


He seems to pitch, rather than throw, anyhow, so it won't be an issue, but haven't a bunch of guys come back throwing harder than they did pre-surgery? Not that I suggest he'll throw FASTER, per se, but I was under the impression that it didn't rob velocity that bad. Or did you mean that the motion for that power is what's causing the problem?

Re: OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:01 pm
by dagger
The game has accelerated faster than the human body can accommodate it.

Re: OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:08 pm
by SargentBargs101
Wow didn't aspect this.... The nationals are cursed... ross detwiler, jordan zimmerman, stephen starsburg now. ouch

Re: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:45 pm
by Schad
tsherkin wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:Better the elbow than the shoulder, but he's probably going to need to learn how to live at 94 rather than 98.


He seems to pitch, rather than throw, anyhow, so it won't be an issue, but haven't a bunch of guys come back throwing harder than they did pre-surgery? Not that I suggest he'll throw FASTER, per se, but I was under the impression that it didn't rob velocity that bad. Or did you mean that the motion for that power is what's causing the problem?


He has a fairly high-stress delivery, using the whip-like motion of his arm to generate power, and displays the dreaded inverted W at times. Chris O'Leary, who is the guru of pitching mechanics, has been warning about this for some time, and updated his post today:

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Bas ... sburg.html

In terms of his having elbow problems rather than shoulder problems, the fact is that it's hard to predict which will fail first because there are lots of variables involved. However, in many cases the elbow will fail before the shoulder does (especially if the pitcher relies heavily on his slider). For example, fellow Inverted W pitcher Anthony Reyes went down with elbow problems before his shoulder problems were able to take their toll.
Going forward, the way this typically works for Inverted W guys is that they come back from the surgery and look great for a few years and then their mechanics again take their toll, but on the shoulder this time. Given Strasburg's velocity, I'm thinking that, if nothing changes in his mechanics and he remains a starter, then the Nats will get one or two years of value out of him before his shoulder blows up.
For Strasburg to have any chance of pitching more than 5 years he's got to change his arm action and get rid of the Inverted W. He also needs to ditch the slider because that is an absolute killer of the elbows. Changing his arm action may knock 5 or so MPH off of his velocity, but that's what it's going to take to reduce the load on his arm.


As the UCL tends to go first in pitchers with mechanical flaws, followed by a slow fraying of the labrum over time. Thus, if Strasburg can't fix his mechanics (and accept that doing so will take some velocity off his pitches) he could end up wrecking his shoulder...and if he does, we go from waiting 'til he returns to wondering if he'll ever be an above-average starter again.



Edit: heh, I'll insert my bi-weekly "....and this is why we should trade Marcum in the off-season" comment here, as well.

Re: OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:22 pm
by tsherkin
Ah, so it is something about his delivery, then. Thanks.

Re: OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:41 pm
by Dr Positivity
Wow at that O'Leary article, calling this and a Smoltz like career if lucky in June 08. I thought I heard a poster here saying Strasburg's technique was injury risk free, unlike Lincecum's... guess not!

Re: OT: Strasburg May By Forced To End Rookie Season

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:56 pm
by CapeCrusader
Randle McMurphy wrote:Mark Prior.


Hopefully not. It would be ashame if he goes through it and can't overcome it.

Re: OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:11 pm
by Ong_dynasty
Dr Mufasa wrote:Wow at that O'Leary article, calling this and a Smoltz like career if lucky in June 08. I thought I heard a poster here saying Strasburg's technique was injury risk free, unlike Lincecum's... guess not!


This is what I thought as well.
I remember one of the main selling points of him was that his motion was fluid or something like that.

I mean are these pitching mechanic "errors" just hindsight?

Re: OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:43 pm
by Schad
Ong_dynasty wrote:
This is what I thought as well.
I remember one of the main selling points of him was that his motion was fluid or something like that.

I mean are these pitching mechanic "errors" just hindsight?


Not really...there were concerns going back to his college days. And his delivery is pretty fluid; the problem is that the way he scap loads (bringing his elbow up and back as he begins his throwing motion) causes his arm to be slightly late as it whips through, which puts quite a bit of undue stress on his elbow and shoulder, as both end up pulling his pitching hand along as it catches up. Because the whole process looks so smooth (and as I'm no expert, determining whether his arm was dragging, and if so by how much, was beyond me) I was never entirely sure whether it was going to be a big deal ultimately, but it definitely looks like it is.

Re: OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:51 pm
by Avenger
Hey Schad, you obviously know a lot about pitcher mechanics, if you have the time would you mind doing a quick rundown of how much our pitchers (both MLB and guys like Drabek and Stewart) would be prone to arm problems based on their mechanics?

Re: OT: Strasburg Has Torn UCL; Tommy John Surgery Likely

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:17 pm
by Schad
Avenger wrote:Hey Schad, you obviously know a lot about pitcher mechanics, if you have the time would you mind doing a quick rundown of how much our pitchers (both MLB and guys like Drabek and Stewart) would be prone to arm problems based on their mechanics?


Heh, there are essentially 3-4 things that I know are bad, and from the terrible video I've found of Drabek, it doesn't look like he does them. His elbow stays below shoulder level from what I can tell, and he has a nice and simple delivery...he brings his elbow back behind his body slightly to scap load but seems to be doing it the right way. I know that the Phillies tweaked his delivery after TJ, so absent decent side-on scouting video I'd give him a cautious thumbs-up.

Can't tell with Stewart; not much good video. Looks like his elbow might get a little high, but I really have no idea.

Major leaguers, Marcum is a huge risk...O'Leary has been mentioning him for years. Morrow could be; he sometimes shows the dreaded inverted W, and his arm can drag a bit, especially when he's tired. Ricky's delivery looks herky-jerky, but it seems fundamentally clean. Same with Cecil.