RealGM

Originally the plan going into the season was to rebuild for 2-3 years. But it seems like that could possibly change as we're much further along then most thought we would be at this stage. The starting rotation is almost complete, and quite a few positions are in great shape for the time being. Just a few key posiitions stand in the way imo.


I don't really know anything about baseball free agency, and what not. But is there any chance at putting a lineup like this together and do you think it's enough to compete?

Starting rotation
Morrow
Romero
Marcum
Cecil
Drabek/Rzep, Litsch, Mills, Richmond etc....


CF-Crawford
SS-Escobar
DH-Manny
3B-Bautista
1b-Lind
RF-Wells
LF-Snider
C-Arencibia
2b-Hill

Carl Crawford is gonna be unbelievably expensive, i'm talking 5-7 years 90-120 million dollars expensive. Matt Holliday got 7 years 126 million with no competition for his services, sure Holliday has the power that you pay premium for but with atleast half the league interested in Crawford, i wouldn't be completely shocked if it took that number to get it done.

We also lose our first rounder in a very deep draft which in and of itself is not that big of a deal but the risk that comes with a contract like this is just not worth it. Everything has to go your way for us to even have a shot at the post season. The young pitching staff cannot regress which is unlikely, you're depending on Hill, Lind and Escobar to bounce back which isn't a given and above all you're expecting everyone to be in perfect health. All it takes is one significant injury to bring the whole thing down and the chances are next to zero of everyone being perfectly healthy and our farm system is very shallow in terms of position player prospects ready to fill in incase of injuries.

I'd rather keep building the core and go for contention in a couple of years with big FA signings with plenty of injury insurance in the farm system which we don't have now.

I'd say let's keep rolling the dice with what we have now.. yeah, we need to fill holes here and there, but I do'nt want to risk the Jays young players

The thing is, the jays ARE competing NOW. They are one of the top teams in baseball since the allstar break. So even if they stand pat, they will be very competitive next year. Starting pitching is excellent. Hitting is excellent. If AA can find 1 or 2 quality arms for the bullpen, they will be there in September. Maybe one could be free agent ala Gregg, a relatively cheap guy with big upside. And maybe one other you trade a prospect for.

Anything beyond this is a bonus, such as snagging a good first baseman. Maybe you take a look at Pena and see if that works. I like Pena to add a bit more spanish blood to go with Bautista, the SS, and Arencibia.

But i don't think you go overboard yet. We don't fully know what we've got yet. Such as will Hill and Lind bounce back, does Bautista repeat, can the starters continue to grow and progress, Is the SS going to hit more, can Thames fit in to left field, is Snider ready to break out, will Schazz be back on the forum, can Gregg get 35 saves again, etc etc etc...

So i think we need to nail this all down for one more year. Go ahead and beef up the bullpen, but not with $55mm guys. Take a look at Pena, Thames etc.. and go from there. Remember, they can always add guys in thru trades next year if the situation warrants.

I think the name you're looking for is Yunel Escobar. But yeah, I'd have to disagree that we'd be in the race come next September, by just the addition of two arms in the pen. Nearly everyone would have to put up near-career bests to compete next year.

One thing we'll need to compete is a legit closer. We'll also have to decide whether or not Lind is going to be our DH or 1st basemen and address that position he doesn't play and possibly go after that in the offseason.

I think they need to wait at least one more season before making any drastic moves. If they do well next year (similar or better record) then they might as well try to add the missing pieces. If they look like they are no where near competing then stay on course and keep developing young guys while moving out any useless contracts.

There is no point rushing otherwise it will be like the late 90s, and JP years all over again.

rkid wrote:I think they need to wait at least one more season before making any drastic moves. If they do well next year (similar or better record) then they might as well try to add the missing pieces. If they look like they are no where near competing then stay on course and keep developing young guys while moving out any useless contracts.

There is no point rushing otherwise it will be like the late 90s, and JP years all over again.

yea ur right, the recent hype has gotten us thinking that we can compete a lot sooner than reality. i think the team should aim to compete in two years. hopefully by that time we can solidify batting and starting rotation and fill up the bullpen through trades?

No way to Carl Crawford. He is going to be really really expensive, and then we'd regret it just like Wells. I can see the Yankees or Red Sox throwing 100+ million at him. Manny Ramirez is possible, if he's cheap and on a 1 year contract....maybe even a 2 year deal. I would rather keep building from within, since it's working, than spending so much in FA.

C: Arencibia
1B: Lind
2B: Hill
3B: Bautista
SS: Escobar
CF: Wells
LF: Snider
DH: Manny? (Or any other power DH bat....Ordonez/Pena/Konerko/Lee)
RF: FA

Romero
Cecil
Marcum
Morrow
Drabek

That would be a competitive and exciting team to watch next season.

My thinking is I'de rather not just sign Manny without some other followups FA signings to atleast put us in contention. Just Manny alone imo we're just fighting for the 3rd spot. If we don't have any real chance at contention I'de prefer to to just stick in the 4th spot and spend "Manny's" money on another Hechaveria , or w/e.

I think if you can get 1/2 year deals for a Manny and a starting pitcher. and sort out the relief pitching.
Then yea.
As long as the team does not give l.t contracts. then why not? that is what kills rebuilding.

I would dangle some prospects, possibly use a guy like Arencibia as one of the centerpieces and look around for an all-star caliber 3rd baseman. I don't think that JP will be a catcher of John Buck's quality in terms of his offensive production at the position and his leadership (atleast not within the next 2-3 years or so) so I'm all for re-signing him. Besides, we got a guy named D'Arnaud that's potentialy better than Arencibia or Buck in the future.

No to Crawford. Can't pay like 40 mil to him and Vernon

I think we have to factor in Bautista pulling a Hill/Lind. If Bautista is over .850 OPS we should be happy. Hopefully Lind makes a comeback though

I'd be down with a 2 year Manny signing

I say no to Crawford and Man-Ram (seriously, an over 40 juicer with no work ethic? the wheels will completely fall off soon).

But if any veteran signings make sense then I say go for it. You have to realize that a lot of realGMers are prospect pornographers, and they will be advocating "waiting 2-3 years" in perpetuity.

Half ass compete.

Rely on the pitching staff, keep adding to it with the youngsters.

Try and build the lineup but not at the expense of our youth. If an offer like Escobar comes our way, do it. If not, stick to the plan. No need to rush to compete.

Snider - Wells - Bautista
????? - Escobar - Hill - Lind
Arencibia

Try to keep adding the foundation and eventually we won't need to have this discussion.

With the Jays being in AL East, you can't take shortcuts. Build the core and be ready to compete for 2012. No need to go crazy this off season.

Why not go with the fourth option: Go for it 100%, but not at the expense of the future. This is what the Yanks and Sox do, why can't we? 50 million on a closer, power bat and lead off man does not prevent us from international signings, nor does it mean that our AAA teams refuse to play.

We've grown so used to acting like we are a 'small market cash strapped' team that we don't even conceive of the possibility of spending on FA's and building our youth at the same time. As long as we have that attitude, we will not compete in the AL East.

^^^
But we are a small market cash strapped team compared to the Yankees and Sox.!

Ong_dynasty wrote:^^^
But we are a small market cash strapped team compared to the Yankees and Sox.!

Atleast until people start showing up.

FreeAgent wrote:

Ong_dynasty wrote:^^^
But we are a small market cash strapped team compared to the Yankees and Sox.!

Atleast until people start showing up.

If they build it, we will come.

We are not a small market team. GTA is bigger than Boston, population wise. Rogers made more in profit in the first quarter of 2010 than either of the Yankees or Sox owners are worth in total. We have more sports channels/sports papers than they do. We have an entire country to market ourselves in. We have set attendance records before. Rogers has to make a decision: spend big time, like they easily can, in hopes the fans come (think of the good press, and the ratings increases on Rogers Sportsnet, FAN 590, etc...). Or, continue spending a bit, and having ok seasons, with ok fan support, hoping fans will magically appear, or the Jays will magically compete with the heavy spenders. For the last fifteen years, the Jays have operated on option (2), and of course, the mediocrity is a logical consequence.

Rogers should think the fans will come once we have good players, rather than thinking we will get good players after the fans come. They have the money to make the first move, and fans do not have the desire to make that first move. So either we continue to be mediocre, or we start to lobby Rogers to spend some money. They can certainly afford it.