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Litsch, McGowan, Tallet, Richmond. We seriously have to get over these guys. Because of injuries or lack of talent, these guys are never going to be back to MLB starters. They're all taking spots that are going to be real tight in our system & rotation.

I think we should not tender them this offseason and move on.

They really aren't...as McGowan and Litsch can be moved to the 60-day DL, they don't affect anything. Richmond is taking up a spot on the 40-man, but it isn't a huge deal. And Tallet has a role that you don't want to assign to a talented player: that of the two-inning garbageman, pitching irregularly and throwing anything from two to forty pitches at a go.

I've criticized some of the roster management in the past as it relates to the pitchers, but with Litsch and McGowan down long-term and thus not taking up any room, I don't have any complaints.

baulderdash77 wrote:Litsch, McGowan, Tallet, Richmond. We seriously have to get over these guys. Because of injuries or lack of talent, these guys are never going to be back to MLB starters. They're all taking spots that are going to be real tight in our system & rotation.

Tallet will be gone next year. The others aren't taking any spots, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

I'll take a chance on Richmond as the 5th starter. He's got decent talent. Better than what they got now.

ItsDanger wrote:I'll take a chance on Richmond as the 5th starter. He's got decent talent. Better than what they got now.

I think that Rzep can go into next season as our 5th starter and then in May Drabek or Stewart will be ready.

I havent been impressed with what zep has showed in his starts this year, next year Drabek will b our 5th starter n i'd like to see Stewart get a chance somewhere in there, as for the others would'nt bother me one bit to c Litsch Tallet go but i wanna c if Mcgowen can come close to what he used to b, but nexts years it for me with him if he can't stay healthy they have to cut him loose.

ItsDanger wrote:I'll take a chance on Richmond as the 5th starter. He's got decent talent. Better than what they got now.

Richmond is not a major league pitcher. He was a nice story as Canadian guy going from the fishing boat harbour to the Canadian team. The nice story is over, and he isn't very good.

Well Schad nailed Litsch and McGowan - until they've exhausted all possible options for recovery they'll just sit on the DL. Tallet can get out lefties and can be the guy for long relief when the game's already over, although Purcey could take the job and he'll be gone, either way that's about right for your twelth man on the staff, 'cause if you've got real talent there it better not be for the long term. Richmond, and Litsch if he recovers, are types I'm perfectly fine with holding on the 40 and throwing in AAA. They're AAAA types that fill short term injuries, nothing wrong if they're your 7th and 8th starters so you don't rush a prospect or end up with Brian Burres in the rotation (we were on our 9th or 10th or 11th guys at some point last year remember?) Sure if you get so deep there's no more room for them, that's fine, but we're still quite a way from that and it's not like those two are good enough to be guaranteed big league jobs elsewhere.

All just my two cents. Sure we shouldn't rely on any of them for anything important, but with the exception of maybe Tallet depending on the other relief options, I wouldn't want to cut bait just for the sake of it.

As others have mentioned, I highly doubt Tallet is brought back next season. He makes $2 million this year and simply is not the pitcher he was in 2006-08 anymore. With Carlson showing signs of life, and Purcey being a failed starter turned reliever, it is just a matter of time for Tallet to be non-tendered.

Litsch and McGowan are on the DL (no harm being done) and Richmond is organizational depth if nothing else. Let's face it, we are staring at the prospect of losing the three best relievers on the team next season. Dumping arms for nothing, unless they are grossly overpaid (i.e. Tallet) would be a huge waste.

No point getting rid of these guys now. As time goes on....probably. As I've said before Rep is not a major league starter, We need to wait for Drabek and Stewart.

aligator wrote:No point getting rid of these guys now. As time goes on....probably. As I've said before Rep is not a major league starter, We need to wait for Drabek and Stewart.

turtle_15 wrote:I havent been impressed with what zep has showed in his starts this year, next year Drabek will b our 5th starter

Rzep has as much potential as anyone to be a 5th starter. With his strikeout ability and greoundball inducing ability he probably has the potential to be much more then that really.

It's not fair to judge the guy on 35 innings when he's coming back from injury, been bounced all over, and getting unlucky based on babip, and lob%. Just needs some time, and that's something we have.

I don't mind Rzep as our 5th starter as well - I think we need to give him a legit shot to see if he has what it takes. His groundball rate is nice, but he needs to start trusting his offspeed stuff a little more.

Would be surprised to see Drabek in the Jays rotation next year. I think they bump him up to AAA for one more season.

There are plenty of guys like Tallet, although he's also shown to be more effective as a starter then reliever. At his salary Jays probably best off letting him sign somewhere else and using him as a situational guy - lefties can't hit him.

Isn't OP's logic the type of thinking that Gordo Ash used when he decided to let Chris Carpenter loose?

Not that any of those fringe Jay pitchers have his kind of ability, but just don't see the logic in bailing out on players when they're recovering from injury. Like McGowan, for example, he's not likely to return to pre-2008 arm strength but stranger things have happened, why not wait and see?

as long as there in Las Vegas i dont't see Drabek or any other high end pitching prospect going there, seems to be a pitcher hell there, batters are lighting it up. I don't see it any other way then himbeing in our rotation next season.

turtle_15 wrote:as long as there in Las Vegas i dont't see Drabek or any other high end pitching prospect going there, seems to be a pitcher hell there, batters are lighting it up. I don't see it any other way then himbeing in our rotation next season.

Agreed. If the AAA affiliate is in the PCL next year, it wouldn't surprise me if Drabek is the #5 starter out of Spring Training. There is no point putting elite pitching prospects in that league, as the risk (getting lit up, possibly changing mechanics, etc) outweighs any potential benefit.

He's thrown 160-ish innings this season so he could probably survive a full MLB season (innings-wise) next year. I'd prefer he start in AAA as well, but only if they move from Vegas into a more neutral park/league.

As far as Rzepczynski getting unlucky, I don't see it. The three things pitchers can control are home runs, strike outs, and walks, and while his K rate is decent, he is giving up home runs (1.35 HR/9) and walks (4.49 BB/9) at a pretty bad rate. I'm willing to give him a mulligan since he was hurt this year, but by no means are his numbers indicating bad luck to me. His command is spotty and (so far) he is homer prone. Not a good combination.

why would you ever like to lessen your pitching depth??? While this year the team has been unbelievably lucky when it comes to the health of their pitchers I have a feeling next year will not be as kind to the Jays rotation. Having fringe 4th and 5th starters can be incredibly important if you lose 1or 2 guys from your rotation.

If we were to drop some of those guys next year and we lost 2 guys, lets say Cecil and Morrow rotation now becomes something like

Romero
Marcum
Zep
Mills
?R. Ray?

If Mills starts one game for the Jays next season I will not be impressed. Not even sure if the guy throws hard enough for batting practice. I don't care about service time, you gotta put Drabek in there if injuries impact the rotation such that Mills has to pitch.

I really don't get why everyone doesn't think Drabek is ready to start the season with the Jays, but will be ready by May or June. Wtf is going to happen to the guy in his first 3-4 minor league starts next year that will make such a huge difference?

I don't see how drabek isnt in our rotation starting next year i see it as....
Romero
Morrow
Marcum
Cecil
Drabek
and i could also see Stewart making a few starts somewhere in there, its time for him to either show hes a legit starter or if there gonnna start breeding him to b the future closer which i could see him being but i would love to c him get a chance in the rotation.

Michael Bradley wrote:As far as Rzepczynski getting unlucky, I don't see it. The three things pitchers can control are home runs, strike outs, and walks, and while his K rate is decent, he is giving up home runs (1.35 HR/9) and walks (4.49 BB/9) at a pretty bad rate. I'm willing to give him a mulligan since he was hurt this year, but by no means are his numbers indicating bad luck to me. His command is spotty and (so far) he is homer prone. Not a good combination.

It's 40 innings. You can't exactly draw much of a conclusion from that, especially after what he did last season.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

Michael Bradley wrote:As far as Rzepczynski getting unlucky, I don't see it. The three things pitchers can control are home runs, strike outs, and walks, and while his K rate is decent, he is giving up home runs (1.35 HR/9) and walks (4.49 BB/9) at a pretty bad rate. I'm willing to give him a mulligan since he was hurt this year, but by no means are his numbers indicating bad luck to me. His command is spotty and (so far) he is homer prone. Not a good combination.

It's 40 innings. You can't exactly draw much of a conclusion from that, especially after what he did last season.

I'm not drawing any conclusions out of it. Just responding to him being unlucky this year, which based on the numbers doesn't really add up. He's giving up HR's and walks. That's not luck.