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Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:16 pm
by J-Roc
A lot of people are wondering what JP Arencibia's future is. I was surprised by this response from Griff's blog.
http://thestar.blogs.com/baseball/2010/ ... bag-2.html
Q: Hi Richard,

In the last mailbag, you alluded to both the potential logjam at catcher in the system (J.P. Arencibia, Brian Jeroloman and Travis D'Arnaud) and Arencibia's recent work with infield coaching gem Brian Butterfield at first base. Do you see there being a chance of Arencibia seeing significant playing time at first to keep him fresh and his bat in the lineup next season while Jose Molina draws more of the plate duty to continue his mentorship of the young starters (potentially including rookies Kyle Drabek and Zach Stewart at some points)? And, that being the case, do you see the potential trio as Jays going forward, or will one of them likely become trade bait at some point? Or (most likely) is it far too early to make this kind of prediction with contention still a few seasons off?

Paul Boudreau, Waterloo

A: It seems that Arencibia is already being pigeon-holed as a strictly offensive catcher that has trouble calling a game and handling pitchers. That's a little harsh off the sample of a handful of major-league games. Jeroloman is the one among that threesome of Jays' prospects that is a given as a potential backup catcher throughout his career. At 25, the lefthanded linedrive hitter has mad defensive skills but a limited bat. There is no room for him as a second guy on a major-league team until the pitching staff has established itself more and until the No. 1 catcher has some solid experience in the majors. Backup catcher is the easiest need to fill in all of baseball. Supply and demand.

Arencibia has been working out at first base with Butterfield, but if it was done, it would not be to give him a rest every now and then. It would be a career move. The organization really likes D'Arnaud, but he is 2-3 years away from being a major-league hitter. If the decision was made to move Arencibia and his bat out from behind the plate, it would give the Jays the option of re-signing John Buck for three years until D'Arnaud was ready, but that would be totally unfair to Arencibia who has done all he can do at Triple-A and should not be sent back to learn another position. The Jays made the same effort with Adam Lind, trying to convert him to first base. In one of his first starts at first, Lind fed a high underhand toss to David Purcey who leaped high, came down awkwardly on the corner of the bag and was forced onto the disabled list. Lind became a first-base accident waiting for a place to happen. Bad perception and Lind should be given a second chance with Overbay as DH. Since then, Lind has been used sparingly and manager Cito Gaston has said he may be better off in left field (yikes) or as a DH. Gaston, of course, will not be there next year so Lind still is an option at first. Or is Arencibia the chosen one? Or is someone from outside the best 2011 option? Putting Jose Bautista at first would just be plain dumb, a waste of his arm. As for one of Arencibia, D'Arnaud or Jeroloman being trade bait, I don't think so for a while. If one of them is to become trade bait it would be J.P. but not yet.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:48 pm
by DonYon
I agree for the most part. I'm all for re-signing Buck and using JP as a trade chip for a all-star caliber 3B. Michael Young is a guy that pops into my head since Texas could use a long-term solution at catcher, but if I remember correctly his contract is quite hefty...

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:10 am
by evilRyu
DonYon wrote:I agree for the most part. I'm all for re-signing Buck and using JP as a trade chip for a all-star caliber 3B. Michael Young is a guy that pops into my head since Texas could use a long-term solution at catcher, but if I remember correctly his contract is quite hefty...

when you mentioned "Michael Young", I thought you were going to mention how we gave up on a promising young talent to acquire a need, and thus keep him instead :)

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:10 am
by evilRyu
DonYon wrote:I agree for the most part. I'm all for re-signing Buck and using JP as a trade chip for a all-star caliber 3B. Michael Young is a guy that pops into my head since Texas could use a long-term solution at catcher, but if I remember correctly his contract is quite hefty...

when you mentioned "Michael Young", I thought you were going to mention how we gave up on a promising young talent to acquire a need, and thus keep him instead :)

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:42 am
by number15
evilRyu wrote:
DonYon wrote:I agree for the most part. I'm all for re-signing Buck and using JP as a trade chip for a all-star caliber 3B. Michael Young is a guy that pops into my head since Texas could use a long-term solution at catcher, but if I remember correctly his contract is quite hefty...

when you mentioned "Michael Young", I thought you were going to mention how we gave up on a promising young talent to acquire a need, and thus keep him instead :)


lol, true

we TRADED a top prospect (Michael Young), to Texas to fill in a "need", (Esteban Loaiza)

................... now we trade ANOTHER young top prospect (JP Arencippia) to Texas to fill in a need (Michael Young)

Are the BlueJays secretly controlled by the Texas Rangers?

dosent make any sense......

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:48 am
by rtcaino
Ya we need to resign Buck for defensive purposes...

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:52 am
by Geddy
If he's showing signs that he is having trouble calling games now then might as well get started early and convert him to another position now. Would solve the future 1B problem while not creating a log jam for D'Arnaud.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:09 am
by rtcaino
If he's showing signs that he is having trouble calling games now then might as well get started early and convert him to another position now. Would solve the future 1B problem while not creating a log jam for D'Arnaud.


Or just try to develop his game calling.

He has been reputed to be a solid defensive catcher. The defensive and offensive talents strike me as being harder to develop than game calling.

He seems like an effective communicator, and a bright enough guy. Not sure why he wouldn't improve in this facet of the game.

But at any rate, I would much rather trade him as a catcher than convert him to a first baseman. Likely has more value that way, as I doubt he would be above avg offensively for 1b.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:17 am
by rtcaino
This is the difference in offensive output from Catcher and 1b in 2010:

C:
.249/.322/.381/.703
1B:
.266/.354/.455/.809


That's not necessarily the average line of a starting first baseman. But it does illustrate how much more valuable his bat is from behind the plate.



http://www.baseballprospectus.com/stati ... tml#postot

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:02 am
by SharoneWright
Complete BS. We have 2 aging catchers and 1 MVP of the PCL in LasVegas. Grow some balls and go with the talent even if its young - you win by miles in the end. JPA getting blackballed by a lame duck manager before it even starts.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:41 am
by J-Roc
SharoneWright wrote:Complete BS. We have 2 aging catchers and 1 MVP of the PCL in LasVegas. Grow some balls and go with the talent even if its young - you win by miles in the end. JPA getting blackballed by a lame duck manager before it even starts.


This is not about Cito. These are organizational decisions that would even come from the minors.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:06 pm
by Ong_dynasty
I actually thought of this for awhile.
I mean is it possible for JP to platoon catcher (with Buck) and 1b (against lefties) while we keep overbay for like a year? surely those two positions should give give him enough games for the year right?

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:35 pm
by LBJSeizedMyID
Been thinking the same thing. Is Buck still playing to drive up his status as a free agent, or is there more to this then we realize? The pitching staff seem very comfortable with the Buck/Molina tandem but think the Jays really need to give Arencibia more starts at catcher to see what they have.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:57 pm
by victor page
I'm not sold on Buck's defense (Ashby thinks he blows). And game calling is mostly BS - catchers that come out and put their hand on a pitcher's rear end are deemed to be good "game callers". There is undoubtedly an art to keeping pitcher's calm and framing borderline pitches but those are definitely skills you can learn.

It's too bad he's not learning it this month instead of throwing Buck out there in his quest for 20 HRs and respecting the pennant race that doesn't exist (since the Yankees and Rays would rather take the wild card and avoid Cliff Lee in the first round).

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:13 pm
by Randle McMurphy
victor page wrote:It's too bad he's not learning it this month instead of throwing Buck out there in his quest for 20 HRs and respecting the pennant race that doesn't exist (since the Yankees and Rays would rather take the wild card and avoid Cliff Lee in the first round).

Pretty sure the home advantage in the ALCS means something to both teams.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:43 am
by evilRyu
TJ Caino wrote:
If he's showing signs that he is having trouble calling games now then might as well get started early and convert him to another position now. Would solve the future 1B problem while not creating a log jam for D'Arnaud.


Or just try to develop his game calling.

that's pretty much my thoughts! we have the resources and time at the moment, we should be taking advantage.. not catering to see if Buck gets his 20 HR's..

Apparently the Jays really like D'Arnaud.. but he won't be ready for another 2-3 years.. but a decision will have to be made then (or maybe now? who knows)

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:08 pm
by Michael Bradley
The Jays are not going to move JPA to 1B when 1) his bat likely doesn't translate to that position, 2) he's a cheap alternative at catcher for at least 3 years if not more, and 3) he is not a bad defensive catcher by any account I have read. I would be very surprised if that move happened.

He is riding the pine right now because Gaston likes veterans. Travis Snider can't even get consistent playing time under Gaston. It is a manager issue. Once Cito is gone, things (hopefully) will start to make sense again.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:34 pm
by CapeCrusader
They should figure out what there doing with Lind for sure before anything. I think they have to make sure what position he'll play before going forward and trying to see if JP will stay at C or play the 1st.

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:43 pm
by Raptorsrock
Cito is a complete nut job. I can't believe AA is too happy with JPA and Snider riding the pine when we have nothing to play for.

Put Lind at 1B for the next 10games, who gives a shat about Overbay's free agency

Re: Griffin: Arencibia Not Future Catcher?

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:56 am
by The_Hater
Raptorsrock wrote:Cito is a complete nut job. I can't believe AA is too happy with JPA and Snider riding the pine when we have nothing to play for.

Put Lind at 1B for the next 10games, who gives a shat about Overbay's free agency


Since AA is Cito's boss, I'm quite certain he has a lot of imput on who's in the lineup these days.