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Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 3:00 am
by dkmo
Well, there's no point in begrudging the Giants for being what our team could have been... the trade never happened and that's just the way life goes sometimes. What I do want to share with you fellas is a response I found by some guy written at that time three years about this trade that never was...
As a Jays fan, and someone who watches baseball in general, I find it funny when people say the Jays should keep Rios even though they like that "Lincecum" guy. That "Lincecum" guy is a future stud. He had 1 good year in the MLB but also has been a HUGE prospect for a while. Whoever said the Jays pitching will be fine as long as Chacin stays healthy is crazy, Chacin is junk, he had 1 good year that wasn't even that good, and he'll never come close to that again. Pitching wins ball games, decent bats are generally easier to find than solid pitching. The jays would be way better if this deal happened.
Think of it this way...how often have you seen a team with great hitting and poor pitching win a World Series?? (Think Texas Rangers if you need help). ALMOST NEVER!!!
How many times have you seen a team with great pitching and poor hitting win a world series? (Think Arizona Diamondbacks, Florida Marlins, etc, etc, etc). PITCHING WINS
That is all
"
A bit of foretelling, is it not? Get this man a job in the Jays front office.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 3:17 am
by -MetA4-
dkmo wrote:Get this man a job in the Jays front office.
For what? Stating the obvious? It was the Giants who bluntly axed that deal, not us.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 3:39 am
by DonYon
yea... pretty much everyone was in favor of this trade at the time.
Although if I remember correctly, I think JP tried to pressure the Giants to give up Cain instead of Lincecum, and that might've been the reason why the Giants eventually backed out.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 3:57 am
by evilRyu
Halladay and Lincecum could have been teammates.. oh well, no use thinking about what "could have been".. i'm sure every single team has had these types of trades on the table, and went with their gut to hold onto their talent.. it happens in every sport, so no need to feel the "if only" feeling
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 4:02 am
by dkmo
-MetA4- wrote:dkmo wrote:Get this man a job in the Jays front office.
For what? Stating the obvious? It was the Giants who bluntly axed that deal, not us.
Yea, but he was spot on when he stated:
Think of it this way...how often have you seen a team with great hitting and poor pitching win a World Series?? (Think Texas Rangers if you need help). ALMOST NEVER!!!
The current jays front office needs to take note. Stockpiling pitchers is the way to go.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 4:33 am
by Wavy Q
evilRyu wrote:Halladay and Lincecum could have been teammates.. oh well, no use thinking about what "could have been".. i'm sure every single team has had these types of trades on the table, and went with their gut to hold onto their talent.. it happens in every sport, so no need to feel the "if only" feeling
The Giants have one of those
Joe Nathan + Francisco Liriano for AJ Pierzinksi, real smart by us on that one.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 11:22 am
by Michael Bradley
Didn't AA say he felt the deal could have gotten done if everyone on both sides kept it private?
Anyway, from what I remember reading, the Jays wanted Lincecum and the Giants were offering Cain. No one knows for sure, but obviously in hindsight any one of those two would have been a great return (as opposed to get nothing for Rios two years later).
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 2:21 pm
by Blade_Runner
this is why a GM needs to see 1,000 days into the future.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 7:14 pm
by Schad
dkmo wrote:
The current jays front office needs to take note. Stockpiling pitchers is the way to go.
Taken a look at our roster and minor league system recently? We
have stockpiled pitching.
And I believe that the Linc/Cain for Rios thread was the one that really sucked me into this board:
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=804696Note how horrifically wrong I was about Cliff Lee.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 8:44 pm
by Randle McMurphy
Schadenfreude wrote:dkmo wrote:
The current jays front office needs to take note. Stockpiling pitchers is the way to go.
Taken a look at our roster and minor league system recently? We
have stockpiled pitching.
And I believe that the Linc/Cain for Rios thread was the one that really sucked me into this board:
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=804696Note how horrifically wrong I was about Cliff Lee.
Ha, you talked about Lee like he was Josh Towers.
What's really amazing is how Rios was held in such high esteem by the fans then. Less than two years later, a majority of them were happy with giving him away for nothing.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Tue Nov 2, 2010 10:46 pm
by KPJR
can't hate on jp when he tried to make this deal happen...
jp is a great scout, horrible gm when it comes to signings
jp=isiah thomas
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Wed Nov 3, 2010 12:49 am
by Hoopstarr
I think Sabean was very hesitant from the very beginning to trade any top prospect after the Nathan-Liriano-Pierajclascalksjfklasky trade. He kept trying to peddle Lowry instead. It would have taken Rios and another big name (probably McGowan) to get Cain or Lincecum so it was kinda doomed from the beginning.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Wed Nov 3, 2010 3:04 am
by DonYon
KPJR wrote:can't hate on jp when he tried to make this deal happen...
jp is a great scout, horrible gm when it comes to signings
jp=isiah thomas
He really wasn't that bad. Majority of our farm system + most of our bullpen + 3/4 of the big 4 is his doing and he won pretty much every trade he made. It's just that when we were finally ready to contend some of our best players went down with injuries. Everything just fell out of place after that and he looked like a lame duck with a bunch of huge contracts left on the roster and very little depth in the farm.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Wed Nov 3, 2010 4:49 pm
by WpgPage
Really if you take the roster he assembled and give them the health/ luck that this years team had that team probably would have made a pretty solid push for the playoffs, just didn't all come together that year. I agree that JP wasn't that bad, the team just needed to go in a different direction given a different situation JP could probably could have built a pretty solid team.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Wed Nov 3, 2010 6:32 pm
by Michael Bradley
JP didn't realize what it took to win the AL East. He was an AL Central GM trying to compete with Boston and New York. When you look at floor instead of ceiling when acquiring talent, then you will get a solid return that lacks upside more often than not. The Jays built a team of good players around Halladay, and it lead to good (but ultimately not great) results. Maybe the 2006 and 2008 teams win another division, but not in the AL East.
If Rios/Lincecum happened, it would have been the one and only time JP took a risk that had any chance of reaping huge rewards (you could argue signing Burnett too but that required a huge overpayment). On the flip side, look at AA's two big talent moves: acquiring Morrow and Escobar. Those are two high upside players that could be perennial all-stars in terms of production. JP would have never acquired players like that (it would have been buying low).
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Wed Nov 3, 2010 9:28 pm
by Raps in 4
Wasn't there even speculation for a short while that the deal was Lincecum AND Cain for Rios? I remember Giants fans were already asking for Sabean's head at the time for even considering it.
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Wed Nov 3, 2010 9:33 pm
by Raps in 4
Randle McMurphy wrote:Schadenfreude wrote:dkmo wrote:
The current jays front office needs to take note. Stockpiling pitchers is the way to go.
Taken a look at our roster and minor league system recently? We
have stockpiled pitching.
And I believe that the Linc/Cain for Rios thread was the one that really sucked me into this board:
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=804696Note how horrifically wrong I was about Cliff Lee.
Ha, you talked about Lee like he was Josh Towers.
What's really amazing is how Rios was held in such high esteem by the fans then. Less than two years later, a majority of them were happy with giving him away for nothing.
Lee was a scrub for most of his career. No one could have predicted his breakout in 2008 (he broke out at age 30). 2006 seemed like an anomaly (and it wasn't even that great of a year).
Re: Lincecum for Rios... If only...
Posted: Wed Nov 3, 2010 10:05 pm
by Randle McMurphy
UssjTrunks wrote:Lee was a scrub for most of his career. No one could have predicted his breakout in 2008 (he broke out at age 30). 2006 seemed like an anomaly (and it wasn't even that great of a year).
Oh, I know. I wasn't making fun of Schad, I felt pretty much the same way.