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On the FAN 590 today they were talking about if the Jays should overpay for Crawford if they think their one piece away. What do you guys think?

They also mentioned pena but that's nothing new. What if we

- signed Crawford
- Signed Pena
- traded for Greinke

Wed make the playoffs for sure lol. However who do you guys want the jays to go after the most? Overpay for Crawford? Go after Pena?

They're not one piece away.

Crawford isn't worth the 18-20 mill per season over 7-8 years he's going to get imo.

Yeah signing Crawford would be a mistake. He would be awesome on this team, but the ammount of money teams will throw at him is ridiculous.

Bob's an idiot. This team is not 1 piece away and Red Sox are not falling back. They just added Gonzalez and will get healthy youkilis, pedroia and ellsbury back. Beckett and Lackey also probably wont be as bad as last season. Besides the Offseason has just started. Yankees will be Yankees. And Rays have a boat load of talent coming up.
For the moment Jays are firmly entrenched in 4th place.

Didn't these guys badgered JP for falling into the same trap that they are now advocating?

-sign Man Ram
-sign Crain
-trade for Greinke (Drabek as centre piece)

Escobar SS
Hill 2B
Bautista 3B
Ramirez DH
Snider OF
Wells OF
Lind 1B
Arencibia C
Rajai Davis OF

Greinke
Romero
Cecil
Morrow
Rzepczynski

Closer: Crain

OakleyDokely wrote:-sign Man Ram
-sign Crain
-trade for Greinke (Drabek as centre piece)

Escobar SS
Hill 2B
Bautista 3B
Ramirez DH
Snider OF
Wells OF
Lind 1B
Arencibia C
Rajai Davis OF

Greinke
Romero
Cecil
Morrow
Rzepczynski

Closer: Crain

I wouldn't go after Greinke this year (maybe next year if he is still available)
I would sign Manny, a closer (pick 1 from putz, crain etc. ) and trade for figgins (who should be available at a discount. This allows AA to keep his prospects and still maintain a decent product on the field.

Figgins? Really? An aging speedster with no defense and no power - we already have Rajai Davis who we don't need. I would be in favour of getting Manny and Putz. Hell, add in Greinke and all of a sudden we're challenging for the division title. All it would cost is probably Drabek and $30M/yr. COnsidering we have $30M free this offseason compared to last year, I don't think it should be outside the realm of possibility. Maybe Pena instead of Manny is more realistic. I'm really hoping we get Putz though, despite usually being of the "don't spend a lot of relievers" opinion.

Skin Blues wrote:Figgins? Really? An aging speedster with no defense and no power - we already have Rajai Davis who we don't need. I would be in favour of getting Manny and Putz. Hell, add in Greinke and all of a sudden we're challenging for the division title. All it would cost is probably Drabek and $30M/yr. COnsidering we have $30M free this offseason compared to last year, I don't think it should be outside the realm of possibility. Maybe Pena instead of Manny is more realistic. I'm really hoping we get Putz though, despite usually being of the "don't spend a lot of relievers" opinion.

Figgins can still easily post 3 WAR seasons in the right environment and is an above average 3B (Seattle was playing him at 2B and it reflected in his poor performance). He will be 33 at the end of next season so he can give you 2 more solid years (i.e. until Lawrie is ready to take over). Then he can take over the role of Johnny Mac for last year of his contract (sure that 9 million price tag isnt going to look pretty sitting on the bench).

No to Crawford although he would b a huge piece just don't want him at 20+ mil a year. And a big NO to figgins aging over priced player, don't need him on this team.

Bob also thinks that Drabek and Snider for Greinke is fair value. I love Bob, but he's a straight moron about the worth of players sometimes.

I think you're misquoting him... he never said we should sign Crawford. He said it would make sense to go after Crawford should we acquire Grienke, since at that point we would be very very close to contention.

If Jayson Werth can get $128 million over 7 years, then Crawford could easily get $180 million over 8.

So no, let us not pursue Crawford.

Young and controllable talent coupled with shorter term free agent contracts is where it's at.

Lateral Quicks wrote:If Jayson Werth can get $128 million over 7 years, then Crawford could easily get $180 million over 8.

So no, let us not pursue Crawford.

Young and controllable talent coupled with shorter term free agent contracts is where it's at.

I wouldn't chase Crawford, because his contract will be absurd, but everyone wants young and controllable talent coupled with shorter term contract free agents. It's not like you can pick them up at Wal-Mart. In the end, most teams that compete for titles have to open up and spend. So far, TB has been an exception the way the Detroit Pistons were the exception to the rule you need a Top 10 superstar to win an NBA title.

Rogers is just not going to win a title with a $75 million payroll, and I don't buy their baloney that they will spend when it's time because frankly, the late Ted and his son are the sports guys, but the beancounters are in charge of Rogers now just like the Teachers' Pension Fund really sets the agenda for MLSE.

At some point, you have to crap or get off the pot, and should begin a little before, not two years after, your farm system really starts sending you some quality young players.

Bob McCown's angle is simple. Jays have money, so they should spend it to create a winner.

And when you look at last year's record, the Jays could probably get into contender status with a few big money moves this winter. No different than the winter before with Halladay. Back in the 80's or 90's, if a team was this "good", they'd go for it the following season.

Bob was also saying that the Jays have cleared a lot of salary from last year (such as the 6 million they were paying for Halladay, JP's salary, Marcum is gone now, Overbay, etc). I think it came close to around 30 million. So, the Jays had 30 million...PLUS Rogers said they would spend more.
That was his rationale to go and get Crawford.
I would rather not chase big contracts but keep building with good young pieces. And I still think the Jays are at least 1 year away.

with snider out of the picture if he goes away in the greinke trade. picking up crawford will fill a void in the OF for a very long time. plus crawford will be the undisputed leadoff for years for come. crawford does have a high pricetag, but again, with greinke and crawford inthe picture, the jays are close to being ready to compete

Crawford
Escobar
Bautista
Wells
Lind
Hill
Molina/JPA
(1B)
(3B)
(OF)

Greinke
Romero
Cecil
Morrow
Rzep

hyper316 wrote:with snider out of the picture if he goes away in the greinke trade. picking up crawford will fill a void in the OF for a very long time. plus crawford will be the undisputed leadoff for years for come. crawford does have a high pricetag, but again, with greinke and crawford inthe picture, the jays are close to being ready to compete

Crawford
Escobar
Bautista
Wells
Lind
Hill
Molina/JPA
(1B)
(3B)
(OF)

Greinke
Romero
Cecil
Morrow
Rzep

So you want to spend $100+ M on a player to become a team that's just about ready to compete?

People seem to forget it's the whole "one player away" thought that screwed the Jays over in the past. In 2006 JP got Burnett,Ryan,Overbay, and Glaus cuz he thought that would put us over the top. Instead, it didn't work out and we had to suffer through mediocrity because of it.

IMO this is a mistake to think we are one piece away. If we cash in our chips and we come up short, then we are down in the gutter for another decade.

At this point I think we wait to see how this season turns out. A deal for the KC pitcher would involved Drabek + prospects and I would rather see if Drabek + prospects can perform. Right now I think we need to look more for the draft and free agency to improve the team this year, trading away prospects isn't fun.

That being said, I would not mind signing Carl Crawford for a few main reasons:
- Going into prime/in prime
- Excels in what we lack (OBP, SB)
- Is easily movable within the season if we decide to change directions

18M a year, 7 years sounds like a fair deal to me. I'm not flipping the bill, and I would argue the revenue from such a signing will outweigh the first few years of his contract. (Imagine all of the Crawford jerseys, extra attendance and possibility of playoffs)

Rough idea
Jerseys sold (5000) - 1M
+3000 tickets a game (x81 = 243k)(243k x 100 = 24.3M) - 24.3M
Playoff series (3 games, 15M a game = 45M) - 45M
There ya go, first 4 years of his contract.

Of course that's unlikely but if he is the difference maker and we make the playoffs, not to mention the added wins attracting more fans, I think its possible. I purposely left off concessions because I feel it will even out encase you think I overstated...