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Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Wed Feb 2, 2011 9:14 pm
by LittleOzzy
Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos says he is a man of his word. When Anthopoulos makes a commitment to a player, he intends to honour it, regardless of the perceived repercussions from the outside world.

That type of mentality was the leading reason behind veteran John Buck getting everyday starts behind the plate late in the 2010 season even when it became apparent his days in a Blue Jays uniform were numbered.

In a controversial move, Buck continued starting for the rebuilding Blue Jays while rookie catcher J.P. Arencibia watched from the dugout. The decision was heavily criticized by both the media and the fan base, but Anthopoulos said it was something the organization needed to do.

"When John Buck was signed to a one-year deal, the promise was made to him that he was going to be an everyday player from start to finish," Anthopoulos said.

"When we were competing to sign him, there were a few other teams that wanted to sign him. That was really what separated us from some of the other teams."

Based strictly on performance, Buck was the Blue Jays' best option behind the plate in 2010. The 30-year-old enjoyed a career season, hitting .281 with 20 home runs and 66 RBIs.

Despite the lofty numbers, the organization came under fire for starting Buck over one of the club's top prospects. Toronto was putting an emphasis on youth and it was apparent that Buck -- an impending free agent -- didn't fit into the Blue Jays' long-term plans.

Instead of giving Arencibia an opportunity, though, Toronto gave the vast majority of the playing time to Buck. That decision helped Buck earn a three-year, $18 million contract with the Florida Marlins, but it did little to show whether Arencibia would be able to succeed in the Major Leagues.

At the time, manager Cito Gaston was burdened with most of the blame. The 66-year-old was set to retire at the end of the season, and he was accused of sacrificing the long-term benefit of the club in order to finish his career with the best possible team on the field.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... b&c_id=mlb

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Wed Feb 2, 2011 9:53 pm
by DonYon
they did us a favor lol Arencibia at the plate was painful to watch. let's hope that changes this season.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:48 pm
by darth_federer
The Drunk Jays Fans guys went nuts on Cito over this. Wonder if they ve changed their mind...

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:49 pm
by Avenger
darth_federer wrote:The Drunk Jays Fans guys went nuts on Cito over this. Wonder if they ve changed their mind...

everyone on DJF is an impressionable idiot, highly doubt that facts mean anything to them. Why bother with rational thinking when you an rile up your readership with senseless bashing of Cito.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Wed Feb 2, 2011 10:53 pm
by evilRyu
yup, AA pretty much touched on this on his most recent interview on the fan..

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Wed Feb 2, 2011 11:25 pm
by tiger7
Arencibia was terrible outside of his first game on offense and defense. He couldn't call a good game for the pitchers or throw out runners well. He also couldn't hit a beach ball. Buck earned it and deserved to start those all those games. He will get ample time to start alongside Jose Molina this season. Whoever wrote that article is an idiot.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 12:33 am
by spykelee
Whether he was good or not is irrelevant to me. Respect, honesty and integrity are important factors. I have no problem with the blue jays living up to there word. You hope that garners respect from players around the league... Where there would be an issue, is if/when whatever they've promised something ridiculous. But giving a guy having a career year, playing time down the stretch for 1 season where we aren't really competiting is fine by me.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 1:56 am
by SharoneWright
I just hope we are as honourable and committed in giving JPA a full chance this year as we were in nailing his as$ to the bench last year.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 2:14 am
by LittleOzzy
darth_federer wrote:The Drunk Jays Fans guys went nuts on Cito over this. Wonder if they ve changed their mind...


Still going nuts, but now it's directed at AA.

http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2011/02/bu ... icize.html

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 2:22 am
by darth_federer
Nice to see Randle still arguing with people over Frank Thomas in the comments.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 2:27 am
by LittleOzzy
I noticed that, haha.

Randle should invite some of the better guys from over there to this forum.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 2:36 am
by Hoopstarr
Avenger wrote:
darth_federer wrote:The Drunk Jays Fans guys went nuts on Cito over this. Wonder if they ve changed their mind...

everyone on DJF is an impressionable idiot, highly doubt that facts mean anything to them. Why bother with rational thinking when you an rile up your readership with senseless bashing of Cito.


And what is the "rational thinking" that's being missed? You call people you don't agree with idiots and nutjobs and then espouse to be rational without saying why.

I think Tammy Rainey put it best in the comments

whatever the truth, or lack thereof, of this assertion, three things remain true:

1. When Buck was hurt, the aging limp-bat of Molina appeared FAR more than JP's did in the lineup;

2. When JP DID get to play in September, it was against the very best opposing pitchers, which was not at all productive for JP and a boon to the 20 HR chase;

3. It wouldn't have been violation of the professed promise if, in the course of almost 30 games in September, JP had started more than SIX of them.

Not that another six is anything to get busted up about, I'm sure he learned tons last year. But it does make you go "hmmmm" about Alex's statement.

My take - yes, there was an assurance made, but it was likely something more like "we're not going to call up the hot prospect and make a bench player out of you" I wouldn't be surprised if Alex had originally planned to deal Buck at the deadline and just didn't get an offer he liked.

That said, when the question was asked he erred in even taking it - as opposed to simply dismissing it with an "I'd rather talk about the future" sort of remark - and having made that error, then was forced to put the best face on the situation without throwing Cito under the bus. There's no real possibility of him saying something that would boil down to "the old fool wouldn't listen to be but he was teflon so I had to bide my time"

I won't go so far as to say Alex broke his "I'll never lie to you" pledge, but he definitely had to spin the **** out of the situation.


I've mentioned #2 and 3 here before. JPA played only against elite pitchers in September until Buck got the 20th HR Cito wanted for him.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 2:39 am
by Hoopstarr
LittleOzzy wrote:I noticed that, haha.

Randle should invite some of the better guys from over there to this forum.


I've been posting there since 2007. That place was much, much worse before the Disqus comments.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 3:56 am
by Schad
Hoopstarr wrote:
LittleOzzy wrote:I noticed that, haha.

Randle should invite some of the better guys from over there to this forum.


I've been posting there since 2007. That place was much, much worse before the Disqus comments.


Heh, I haven't posted there since they added the Disqus comment system. If it's better, I might have to get an account.

Edit: hmm, appears that Schad is taken on Disqus. Registered as TheGentleSeaCow.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 4:26 am
by Geddy
Avenger wrote:
darth_federer wrote:The Drunk Jays Fans guys went nuts on Cito over this. Wonder if they ve changed their mind...

everyone on DJF is an impressionable idiot, highly doubt that facts mean anything to them. Why bother with rational thinking when you an rile up your readership with senseless bashing of Cito.


I wouldn't call them all idiots, but many of them do come off sounding like pompous wind bags.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 4:39 am
by OldNo7
I think AA publicly stating that he is a man of his word, and holding up to it, can only help his future negotiations. Especially when players talk, and players that share agents, etc.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 6:19 am
by satyr9
I think there is some room for sticking with a vet FA guy if you've convinced him to sign at least in part based on playing time. Still, September was too far and JPA should've played more. I don't care what the reasons or rationale, who was responsible for what decisions, it was just stupid and no one in Buck's position could've complained if they'd lost an extra 10 starts at the end of the year. ffs, give Buck a day or two at DH if it's so important he gets a shot at 20HR, but if JPA is up and the games are meaningless, he should've been playing more. It ain't rocket science.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 2:03 pm
by LittleOzzy
Schadenfreude wrote:
Edit: hmm, appears that Schad is taken on Disqus. Registered as TheGentleSeaCow.


TheGentleSeaCow, I like it, I like it a lot.

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 5:00 pm
by Evermore
I was surprised and disappointed that AA didn't sell high with Buck like he did with Alex Gonzalez...

My philosophy (this one's for you Ozzy) is that rebuilding teams should really only sign vets to a 1 year deal with the intention of increasing their value around the league and then shipping them at the deadline


I know, I know...it's flawed

Re: Promise to Buck impacted Arencibia's starts

Posted: Thu Feb 3, 2011 5:21 pm
by Michael Bradley
Trading the one year stop gaps only makes sense if the return trumps the potential value of a draft pick. Yunel Escobar, prior to 2010, was a top 5 to 10 calibre SS in baseball (ranked 8th and 5th in WAR for SS in 2008 and 2009 respectively) with three plus years of service time remaining. Getting him for Gonzalez was a gift. That was a case of buying low (the Braves soured on him/his performance dropped) and selling high (Gonzalez was hitting well at the time). Escobar never would have been available that cheaply in a normal situation. With Buck, Frasor, and Gregg, it's likely that the Jays simply did not feel the player(s) they were getting back was worth giving up the compensation pick for. That remains to be seen.

I too would have preferred trading Buck and letting JPA play in August and September, but if the return for Buck was not going to be better than a top 50 draft pick (in a deep draft), then no sense in pulling the trigger.