RealGM

remember all the keyboard warrior scouts who were all up in arms(probably includes me) over the Wallace trade?

check out Keith Law's view on Brett Wallace and remember Law was one of Wallace's bigggest supporters, he ranked him in the top 15 or something ridiculous like that in his midseason rankings.

The way Wallace’s rise to the majors has stalled out has been a hot topic among scouts this winter, since at the time he was drafted the debate was over whether he could play any position well enough to keep him off DH, not whether he’d hit. But the new consensus is that Wallace can’t cover the inner half because he doesn’t fully rotate his back side through his swing, ceding the inside part of the plate to the pitcher, and that it’s not fixable. If anyone can help him, it’s new hitting coach Mike Barnett, who was hitting coach in Toronto while I was in the front office … but the industry has officially jumped off the Wallace bandwagon.

Alex jumped off a sinking ship just in time, if you wait two more months and let everyone in baseball see his 60:5 K:BB ratio(or something awful like that) you couldn't get a bag of balls for him, let alone an Anthony Gose.

i probably have to eat my own words. I was strongly opposed to the wallace-gose trade. we'll see how this pans out

What changed over the winter that it's "not fixable" anymore? The scouting report about his birthing hips preventing him from covering the inner half came out last season and he didn't play in the AFL so what changed?

Anyway, it's a good sell-high regardless of what happens because Wallace was useless to us as a light-hitting 1B. If Gose reaches anything close to his ceiling, it's a huge win. I wanted Gose during the original Doc trade talks, then I thought we gave up too much in Wallace when we did get him, and now I'm back on the Gosewagon again. He's doing pretty well for a 19 year old in high A.

This 'hip rotation' problem and inner half vulnerability was reported near the end of last season - I was happy at the time to dump a non-power bat 1B for a high risk/reward CF prospect,, but I do tend to gamble on upside a little too much... still no guarantee on Gose. Got to give AA lots of credit though for seeing what the Astros were missing... that Houston team seems to be a little lost these days...

Wallace's value dropped the minute he had to move from 3B to 1B. His offense was never going to be good enough to play such a critical offensive position. I wouldn't call it selling high (St. Louis sold high on him....Oakland and Toronto just sold before his value plummeted), but it was a good trade for what the Jays were trying to accomplish. They can afford to wait for Gose. He brings a unique upside attached to his plus glove and speed, even though he also comes with big bust potential.

What I find odd is why the Jays simply couldn't get Gose in the original Halladay deal when they were chipping in $6 million in the deal. Did the Phils really view Gose that higher than Taylor? Then again, Taylor had a poor 2010 as well. Definitely a wait-and-see trade.

Michael Bradley wrote:
What I find odd is why the Jays simply couldn't get Gose in the original Halladay deal when they were chipping in $6 million in the deal. Did the Phils really view Gose that higher than Taylor? Then again, Taylor had a poor 2010 as well. Definitely a wait-and-see trade.

I seem to remember AA saying he wanted Gose as one of the pieces coming back from the Doc trade, but Philly wouldn't budge. When he saw that Gose was being moved, he then joined in on the trade.

Open mouth, insert crow.

Keep in mind that AA and the scouting crew also traded for Wallace to begin with.

Then why did we get him in the first place?

I think he just got lucky on this one

I believe Wallace was even drafted by the jays, but didn't end up signing. So they've had their eye on him for a long time

I still don't understand how AA trades a re-signed Halladay...and doesn't land the Phillie's top prospect Dominic Brown...

Drabek and Brown for Halladay would've had such a nice ring to it

Evermore wrote:I still don't understand how AA trades a re-signed Halladay...and doesn't land the Phillie's top prospect Dominic Brown...

Drabek and Brown for Halladay would've had such a nice ring to it

What kind of leverage did AA have?

evilRyu wrote:

Michael Bradley wrote:
What I find odd is why the Jays simply couldn't get Gose in the original Halladay deal when they were chipping in $6 million in the deal. Did the Phils really view Gose that higher than Taylor? Then again, Taylor had a poor 2010 as well. Definitely a wait-and-see trade.

I seem to remember AA saying he wanted Gose as one of the pieces coming back from the Doc trade, but Philly wouldn't budge. When he saw that Gose was being moved, he then joined in on the trade.

Yeah, but the Jays were giving up the best player in the deal (hell, the best pitcher in baseball) plus $6 million to the Phillies. Gose is not Domonic Brown. I'm just curious why the Jays couldn't get him in the original deal given the circumstances. It's not like Gose is/was a top 50 prospect or anything (though he could be in the future with some offensive improvement). Maybe the Phillies were just willing to move MLB ready talent (like Taylor) rather than younger players who they could afford to wait for after their window runs out.

Regardless, it was a creative way for AA to get the player he wanted while ditching a player that was declining in value.

It's funny reading back on the Halladay trade thread:
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=960004&start=90

The board was going nuts on December 14/15, 2009.

In hindsight, it sucks we couldn't get Brown, but we had no leverage at all. Just happy to have gotten something of substance back for Halladay.

Call me naive, but I'm only just starting to wonder if too many RealGMers are out-and-out haters. People forget how huge it was to get Drabek, especially now that we know that Roy only wanted to be traded to the Phillies. Gose may yet justify AA's faith in him, and (now) I'd rather have him than Wallace or Taylor. Especially now with Wells gone. D'Arnaud could be a good one, I sense better than JPA.

In AA we trust (for now). Who has time to systematically second guess the decisions of TWO sports franchises?

That reminds me of Lind's weakness. Through a high outside fastball and its a guaranteed strikeout.

What is the word these days on Michael Taylor? Is he looking like he will be any good at the major league level?

tecumseh18 wrote:Call me naive, but I'm only just starting to wonder if too many RealGMers are out-and-out haters. People forget how huge it was to get Drabek, especially now that we know that Roy only wanted to be traded to the Phillies. Gose may yet justify AA's faith in him, and (now) I'd rather have him than Wallace or Taylor. Especially now with Wells gone. D'Arnaud could be a good one, I sense better than JPA.

In AA we trust (for now). Who has time to systematically second guess the decisions of TWO sports franchises?

Where are these AA haters that you're talking about?

rkid wrote:What is the word these days on Michael Taylor? Is he looking like he will be any good at the major league level?

No, he looks like a bust.