D'Arnaud and JPA (future)

number15 · Post #1 » by **number15** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:18 pm

JP Arencibia is a gem offensively. Not many catchers can hit like him at his age...... but his defence is not as good as prospect Travis D'Arnaud, a defensive stud who dosent hit nearly as good as Arencibia or atleast power wise.

I can see the Jays thinking of D'Arnaud as the future catcher cause of the defensive point.... but what happens to JP then?

he is a star hitter because he is a catcher.... move him to say 1st and he will be average. Likely not even good enough to push Lind out of the picture.

That and people already talking about D'Arnaud seeing his first MLB action as early as 2012

Im a JP Arencibia fan.... and hope to see him stay over D'Arnaud, but thers alot of depth and someone has to fall

who?

Post #2 » by **Schad** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:31 pm

In all likelihood, you trade Arencibia. You could certainly move him to first base or DH, but his value in trade would almost certainly exceed his value as a first baseman. Meanwhile, d'Arnaud could be stellar; his AA numbers are fantastic.

However, you don't trade Arencibia until d'Arnaud has proven capable of taking over the job. That probably won't be until mid 2012, at the earliest.

Randle McMurphy · Post #3 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:40 pm

Yeah...this isn't really a problem. If D'Arnaud proves himself to be a two-way superstar, JPA should be easily tradeable.

flatjacket1 · Post #4 » by **flatjacket1** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:22 am

Schadenfreude wrote:In all likelihood, you trade Arencibia. You could certainly move him to first base or DH, but his value in trade would almost certainly exceed his value as a first baseman. Meanwhile, d'Arnaud could be stellar; his AA numbers are fantastic.

However, you don't trade Arencibia until d'Arnaud has proven capable of taking over the job. That probably won't be until mid 2012, at the earliest.

I agree. He is worth too much in a trade to be converted into a 1B or DH (Because everyone at those positions has a bat).

I also agree with your timeline on D-Arnaud. I think JPA is at the peak of his value so I would trade him now.

Post #5 » by **Schad** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:42 am

flatjacket1 wrote:
I also agree with your timeline on D-Arnaud. I think JPA is at the peak of his value so I would trade him now.

Disagree strongly. There's no sense in trading a guy halfway into his rookie season, in the hopes that another guy will be ready a year from now. Arencibia's value will go up simply by proving capable of being a league-average hitter at catcher over eighteen months (league-average being well above the norm for catchers).

flatjacket1 · Post #6 » by **flatjacket1** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:48 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
flatjacket1 wrote:
I also agree with your timeline on D-Arnaud. I think JPA is at the peak of his value so I would trade him now.

Disagree strongly. There's no sense in trading a guy halfway into his rookie season, in the hopes that another guy will be ready a year from now. Arencibia's value will go up simply by proving capable of being a league-average hitter at catcher over eighteen months (league-average being well above the norm for catchers).

He looks like a bust to me who will eventually be forced to move from the catcher position. The day that happens hes worth nothing. His bat is only as useful at catcher, at first base its hardly effective.

He pre determines whether he swings or not. Come on you guys watch the games, how many times has he swung as 58 foot fast balls on 3-2 counts?

Randle McMurphy · Post #7 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:12 am

I guess Carlos Santana is a bust, too. Maybe we can trade our respective busts for each other.

Post #8 » by **YogiStewart** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:21 am

its pretty simple and its a nice problem to have.
you keep JPA for the next 2 seasons. You bring in TD'A and let him and JPA split duties and fight it out. you figure out what to do in the offseason and voila! you have a tradeable asset.

Post #9 » by **J.Kim** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:39 am

flatjacket1 wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:
flatjacket1 wrote:
I also agree with your timeline on D-Arnaud. I think JPA is at the peak of his value so I would trade him now.

Disagree strongly. There's no sense in trading a guy halfway into his rookie season, in the hopes that another guy will be ready a year from now. Arencibia's value will go up simply by proving capable of being a league-average hitter at catcher over eighteen months (league-average being well above the norm for catchers).

He looks like a bust to me who will eventually be forced to move from the catcher position. The day that happens hes worth nothing. His bat is only as useful at catcher, at first base its hardly effective.

He pre determines whether he swings or not. Come on you guys watch the games, how many times has he swung as 58 foot fast balls on 3-2 counts?

Are you serious? You can confidently state that JPA is a bust after 66 games into his first full season as a player?

luenell · Post #10 » by **luenell** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:47 am

flatjacket1 wrote:He looks like a bust to me who will eventually be forced to move from the catcher position. The day that happens hes worth nothing. His bat is only as useful at catcher, at first base its hardly effective.

He pre determines whether he swings or not. Come on you guys watch the games, how many times has he swung as 58 foot fast balls on 3-2 counts?

lol, who were you expecting, Johnny Bench?

Hummus · Post #11 » by **Hummus** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:00 am

number15 wrote:Travis D'Arnaud, a defensive stud who dosent hit

Post #12 » by **Schad** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:59 am

I missed the part about d'Arnaud not hitting as well. The reason that people are high on him is that he could well hit almost as well or as well as Arencibia, and field the position far better.

At 22, he's putting up numbers that would leave him on pace to hit ~20 HRs in AA over a full season, while walking more, striking out less, and cranking a tonne of doubles; he's not quite as powerful as Arencibia without question, but he could be the better hitter all things considered. There's no guarantee, of course, and for that reason we shouldn't do anything silly until he proves capable of such at a higher level.

silverhill27 · Post #13 » by **silverhill27** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:04 am

The major red flag that concerns me with d'Arnaud are his back problems. I mean he's only 22 and these types of injuries only get worse with age with a physically demanding position such as catcher. I say let them split the duties at the outset and have JP DH against lefties (like in LA with Mathis and Napoli)

Deadpool_X · Post #14 » by **Deadpool_X** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:02 am

Too many young talented catchers? oh no! what a terrible problem...

Seriously, you wait until D'Arnaud is ready to be in the majors, bring him up and slowly intergrate him. Then trade one. (science! it works!) Also JPA defense has been progressing well over the first half of this season, he may never be an elite defensive catcher, but already he is average IMO.