RealGM

Does he go as a jay or philly.

All depends really - far too early to say.

If his next conract has him re-signing with the Jays (a boy can dream, right?) or a third team, he'll probably be a Jay.

If his next contract is with the Phillies, it's likely he'll go as one of them.

Of course, the more immediate question is McGriff.

Parataxis wrote:All depends really - far too early to say.

If his next conract has him re-signing with the Jays (a boy can dream, right?) or a third team, he'll probably be a Jay.

If his next contract is with the Phillies, it's likely he'll go as one of them.

Of course, the more immediate question is McGriff.

If McGriff goes in, I see it, as a Brave. But I doubt he goes in anyway.

Damn, I didn't realize McGriff only spent 4 seasons in Toronto. At least 84 HRs for 4 different teams, that's pretty impressive. I wonder how many other people have done that.

Parataxis wrote:Of course, the more immediate question is McGriff.

McGriff won't make it.

He was one of my fav Jays as a kid...and I remember he hit the first ever HR in the dome.

But his first year of eligibility he only received 22% of the vote....and then last year only 17%.
I really don't see him having a chance. He was a really good ball player but not a Hall of Famer.

Halladay will go in as a Phillie, IMO. Two no-hitters in one season, at least one Cy Young award (although I'm guessing he is not finished yet), and likely a bunch of playoff appearances with a ring or two being a distinct possibility. Philly is a big American market and they hold their stars in very high regard. Halladay is going to end up in Phillies folklore if he ends up having five or more Cy calibre seasons in that uniform.

Alomar made it as a Jay because 1) he won two titles there, and 2) the rest of his career (while statistically better) were on many different teams and none of those runs were as memorable or successful as his run in Toronto. I am willing to bet if Roy puts in five 'Halladay type' seasons in Philly he would have already surpassed his Jays career just by playoff appearances and media hype. The Philles of 2008-beyond may be considered a dynasty when all is said and done, and Halladay will be a big part of it.

I hope he goes in as a Jay, but if the last five to ten years of his career go the way I expect it to, then his Jays tenure will be a distant memory.

I'm pretty sure he's going to go into the hall as a Philly. Truth be told the American media doesn't give enough of a **** about the Jays or Canada to fully acknowledge his work here.

Depending on his length of tenure and his playoff success this might end up being the right decision anyway.

All depends on what he and the Phillies do going forward. It's going to have to be a hell of a lot, though, to contend with what he did for over a decade with the Jays. He spent a long time with this organization and the HOF committee won't overlook that. But Halladay, as we all know, is capable of a hell of a lot, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he kept pitching at a high level into his late 30s.

I can't say I care too much either way, though. If he goes in as a Phillie, it won't take away from him being the best player in this organization's history. It also certainly shouldn't stop them from retiring his number. If you're going to do it with Alomar (which, while I'm on the topic, I wasn't that big a fan of as the forgotten Dave Stieb was more valuable to the organization over a longer time), it should be done with Doc too, no matter what team he goes in under.

Homer Jay wrote:

Parataxis wrote:All depends really - far too early to say.

If his next conract has him re-signing with the Jays (a boy can dream, right?) or a third team, he'll probably be a Jay.

If his next contract is with the Phillies, it's likely he'll go as one of them.

Of course, the more immediate question is McGriff.

If McGriff goes in, I see it, as a Brave. But I doubt he goes in anyway.

If McGriff doesn't make the HoF, he'll be the (non-steroid tainted) player with the most HRs not in the Hall. He also had good defence and great presence.

I can see him being a 10th balloter perhaps; he's definitely not a lock,

Personally, I'd love to see the Jays try to reclaim him (like they did with Alomar). Start making more and more references to him, bring him to the games. We've got a few years at least to make people associate him with the baby-blues.

youngLion wrote:I'm pretty sure he's going to go into the hall as a Philly. Truth be told the American media doesn't give enough of a **** about the Jays or Canada to fully acknowledge his work here.

It's not the media's decision to make. Look no further than the example of Gary Carter here. He won his WS with the Mets during one of his good years, wanted to go in as a Met, and had the New York media pushing for that outcome, but the Hall recognized him for his decade as an Expo. As they should have. And there's no reason the same thing can't happen with Halladay, at least until his Phillies accomplishments start to overshadow his Jays' years.

Parataxis wrote:

Homer Jay wrote:

Parataxis wrote:All depends really - far too early to say.

If his next conract has him re-signing with the Jays (a boy can dream, right?) or a third team, he'll probably be a Jay.

If his next contract is with the Phillies, it's likely he'll go as one of them.

Of course, the more immediate question is McGriff.

If McGriff goes in, I see it, as a Brave. But I doubt he goes in anyway.

If McGriff doesn't make the HoF, he'll be the (non-steroid tainted) player with the most HRs not in the Hall. He also had good defence and great presence.

I can see him being a 10th balloter perhaps; he's definitely not a lock,

Personally, I'd love to see the Jays try to reclaim him (like they did with Alomar). Start making more and more references to him, bring him to the games. We've got a few years at least to make people associate him with the baby-blues.

Yeah I think he should go in, just like Carlos, as one of the few good sluggers from the era without steroid implications. Thome is a first balloter, same with Griffey. Bagwell was never implicated in any reports, but is suspected, and is not getting votes. Did Caminiti implicate him before his death? I can't remember exactly where the Bagwell suspicion comes from.

I also wonder about the Coors Field boys. It looks like Walker is not considered HOF worthy, will Helton get knocked down as well?

Anyway back to McGriff... he had some good HR seasons here. But only one lost ALCS to show for it. The Braves saw him get 1 WS win, 1 WS Loss, 2 NLCS losses, and the strike year might have cost him another post season. He was definitely a key player on those teams, so deserves some credit for the success. He also had a very good chance at the 1994 NL MVP before the strike happened too. That is the main reason why I look at him as going in as a Brave.

A guy I truely wonder about, even thou he is kind of a long shot, is Johnny Damon. Royal or Red Sox?

Homer Jay wrote:

Parataxis wrote:If McGriff doesn't make the HoF, he'll be the (non-steroid tainted) player with the most HRs not in the Hall. He also had good defence and great presence.

I can see him being a 10th balloter perhaps; he's definitely not a lock,

Personally, I'd love to see the Jays try to reclaim him (like they did with Alomar). Start making more and more references to him, bring him to the games. We've got a few years at least to make people associate him with the baby-blues.

Yeah I think he should go in, just like Carlos, as one of the few good sluggers from the era without steroid implications. Thome is a first balloter, same with Griffey. Bagwell was never implicated in any reports, but is suspected, and is not getting votes. Did Caminiti implicate him before his death? I can't remember exactly where the Bagwell suspicion comes from.

I also wonder about the Coors Field boys. It looks like Walker is not considered HOF worthy, will Helton get knocked down as well?

Anyway back to McGriff... he had some good HR seasons here. But only one lost ALCS to show for it. The Braves saw him get 1 WS win, 1 WS Loss, 2 NLCS losses, and the strike year might have cost him another post season. He was definitely a key player on those teams, so deserves some credit for the success. He also had a very good chance at the 1994 NL MVP before the strike happened too. That is the main reason why I look at him as going in as a Brave.

A guy I truely wonder about, even thou he is kind of a long shot, is Johnny Damon. Royal or Red Sox?

McGriff definitely had the better career as a Brave - although I (and to a certain extent the HoF, I think) tend to over-value where a player started his career. (see: Gary Carter, Paul Molitor). But yeah, McGriff isn't quite in the league of those two, admittedly.

Damon is a good question. Personally, when I think of him, it's as a Red Sox, but I'd love to see more diversity in the Hall.

Homer Jay wrote:A guy I truely wonder about, even thou he is kind of a long shot, is Johnny Damon. Royal or Red Sox?

Boston, I'd imagine (his early years in KC were rather underwhelming), though the Yankees actually have as good of a case; he put up better numbers there, and won as many rings with them as the Sox.

Hopefully, he doesn't go in even if he reaches 3000 hits; I have nothing against him, but there are so many better players who have failed to even register. Damon is likely to finish below John Olerud in career WAR, yet Olerud didn't even garner 1% of the vote.

Beeston was just asked about Halladay going in with a Phils cap and nearly busted a gut. Roy's overall body of work with the Jays will be difficult to surpass... My money's still on Jays. (Those multiple nonJay WS rings are more easy to imagine than get)