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OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:40 pm
by LittleOzzy
Joey Votto lined a game-winning home run to left field in his last at-bat Wednesday night, then roped a double to the top of the left field wall in his first appearance Thursday afternoon. Vintage-Votto power to the opposite field. For now at least, the technician is back on top of his game.
In a year of glaring, shrieking, five-alarm inconsistency, the Reds best player has maintained the most level head. He has been frustrated by a lack of hit-worthy pitches. He has toiled most of the summer without a bona fide slugger hitting behind him.
Brandon Phillips does noble duty at cleanup. He’s not a cleanup hitter.
He has learned what it’s like to receive the Reigning MVP Treatment. Votto sees lots of pitches he wouldn’t feed his dog. And yet, he leads the NL in walks and on-base percentage, and is Top 10 in RBI, batting average and runs scored. It’s not an MVP season. It’s still very good.
Ask him to describe his season, Votto says “Improved. Frustrated. Pretty irritated at times. But I’m a better player overall.’’
He’ll be 28 in a month. He’s in his prime. He’s the Reds best player. And they will have to consider trading him over the winter.
There is something fundamentally messed up about a sport which doesn’t allow all its teams to keep their best players. Joey Votto will make $17 million two years from now. It says more about baseball economics than about snarky sportswriters that trading Votto is a conversation topic already.
No one is clamoring for an NFL-style socialism. That might encourage the sort of subsidized mediocrity we’ve endured at Paul Brown Stadium. But there ought to be a way Baseball can spread enough wealth so trading a player like Votto is an option, not a mandate.
I asked Votto about it. Not surprisingly, he was thoughtful and candid. Also not surprisingly, he had no problem with the way things are. He’s a wealthy man because of it.
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2011 ... pnews|text
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:57 pm
by Dr Positivity
Can't wait till AA gets him for Drabek and Snider : D
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:39 pm
by Nolan
I'd love to get him. Votto and Bautisa would be a deadly together. But i'm sure the asking price is going to be very very high.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:56 pm
by JoeyBats
Nolan wrote:I'd love to get him. Votto and Bautisa would be a deadly together. But i'm sure the asking price is going to be very very high.
Wasn't there a rumor that AA offered Bautista for Votto + prospect ?
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:03 pm
by Hoopstarr
JoeyBats wrote:Nolan wrote:I'd love to get him. Votto and Bautisa would be a deadly together. But i'm sure the asking price is going to be very very high.
Wasn't there a rumor that AA offered Bautista for Votto + prospect ?
That doesn't make any sense for us unless AA has a huge maple boner for Votto. Better to keep Jose and spend on Pujols/Fielder.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:49 pm
by baulderdash77
Lind could be the centerpiece of a trade for Votto. The upgrade from Lind is substantial.
Something like Lind, Gose & Hutch for Votto would work be what it takes IMO.
I could see the team making the deal. Votto is a young MVP player who's actually from Toronto. A hitting lineup of Escobar, Lawrie, Bautista and Votto is contending.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:02 pm
by kwamebargnani
JoeyBats wrote:Nolan wrote:I'd love to get him. Votto and Bautisa would be a deadly together. But i'm sure the asking price is going to be very very high.
Wasn't there a rumor that AA offered Bautista for Votto + prospect ?
AA never offered anything. It was more like both sides discussing it. Nothing serious.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:24 pm
by CapeCrusader
If I were the reds I would hold on to him. They got a good core with him Stubbs and Bruce.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:59 pm
by Wally West
baulderdash77 wrote:Lind could be the centerpiece of a trade for Votto. The upgrade from Lind is substantial.
Something like Lind, Gose & Hutch for Votto would work be what it takes IMO.
I could see the team making the deal. Votto is a young MVP player who's actually from Toronto. A hitting lineup of Escobar, Lawrie, Bautista and Votto is contending.
Gose is next to untouchable. AA really loves the kid and won't include him in any trades even for Votto. If anything, the deal will centre around Lind and maybe 2 pitching prospects like a Drabek, Alvarez, Hutchinson, Molina, McGuire.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:17 pm
by Schad
baulderdash77 wrote:Lind could be the centerpiece of a trade for Votto. The upgrade from Lind is substantial.
Something like Lind, Gose & Hutch for Votto would work be what it takes IMO.
I could see the team making the deal. Votto is a young MVP player who's actually from Toronto. A hitting lineup of Escobar, Lawrie, Bautista and Votto is contending.
IMO, that deal is one big piece short, at least, though I've stopped underestimating AA's ability to make deals where none should be possible. Still, if we can't get Fielder or Pujols, and the Reds put Votto on the market, I wouldn't have any qualms throwing a sizable chunk of the farm system at him (though I'd cry if we have to trade Hutch).
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:19 pm
by Avenger
blackflash234 wrote:baulderdash77 wrote:Lind could be the centerpiece of a trade for Votto. The upgrade from Lind is substantial.
Something like Lind, Gose & Hutch for Votto would work be what it takes IMO.
I could see the team making the deal. Votto is a young MVP player who's actually from Toronto. A hitting lineup of Escobar, Lawrie, Bautista and Votto is contending.
Gose is next to untouchable. AA really loves the kid and won't include him in any trades even for Votto. If anything, the deal will centre around Lind and maybe 2 pitching prospects like a Drabek, Alvarez, Hutchinson, Molina, McGuire.
Are you serious? AA would personalyl drive Gose to the airport if Jocketty ever agreed to that deal.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:27 pm
by Avenger
Schadenfreude wrote:baulderdash77 wrote:Lind could be the centerpiece of a trade for Votto. The upgrade from Lind is substantial.
Something like Lind, Gose & Hutch for Votto would work be what it takes IMO.
I could see the team making the deal. Votto is a young MVP player who's actually from Toronto. A hitting lineup of Escobar, Lawrie, Bautista and Votto is contending.
IMO, that deal is one big piece short, at least, though I've stopped underestimating AA's ability to make deals where none should be possible. Still, if we can't get Fielder or Pujols, and the Reds put Votto on the market, I wouldn't have any qualms throwing a sizable chunk of the farm system at him (though I'd cry if we have to trade Hutch).
Substitute Hutch with McGuire and give them Snider. Lind, Snider, McGuire and Gose for Votto and the Reds would probably seriously consider that.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:35 pm
by guvernator
Avenger wrote:Schadenfreude wrote:baulderdash77 wrote:Lind could be the centerpiece of a trade for Votto. The upgrade from Lind is substantial.
Something like Lind, Gose & Hutch for Votto would work be what it takes IMO.
I could see the team making the deal. Votto is a young MVP player who's actually from Toronto. A hitting lineup of Escobar, Lawrie, Bautista and Votto is contending.
IMO, that deal is one big piece short, at least, though I've stopped underestimating AA's ability to make deals where none should be possible. Still, if we can't get Fielder or Pujols, and the Reds put Votto on the market, I wouldn't have any qualms throwing a sizable chunk of the farm system at him (though I'd cry if we have to trade Hutch).
Substitute Hutch with McGuire and give them Snider. Lind, Snider, McGuire and Gose for Votto and the Reds would probably seriously consider that.
over-payment, considering what the sox payed for gonzalez last winter.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:38 pm
by Avenger
guvernator wrote:
over-payment, considering what the sox payed for gonzalez last winter.
?
they payed a decent price for one year of Gonzalez , we're getting two years of Votto plus the whole hometown boy thing
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:06 pm
by guvernator
Avenger wrote:guvernator wrote:
over-payment, considering what the sox payed for gonzalez last winter.
?
they payed a decent price for one year of Gonzalez , we're getting two years of Votto plus the whole hometown boy thing
who said it was for 1 year of Gonzalez? they got him signed to an extension (the only reason they announced it in April was to save luxury tax - for which btw they should have been fined heavily).
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:59 am
by Evermore
Avenger wrote:blackflash234 wrote:baulderdash77 wrote:Lind could be the centerpiece of a trade for Votto. The upgrade from Lind is substantial.
Something like Lind, Gose & Hutch for Votto would work be what it takes IMO.
I could see the team making the deal. Votto is a young MVP player who's actually from Toronto. A hitting lineup of Escobar, Lawrie, Bautista and Votto is contending.
Gose is next to untouchable. AA really loves the kid and won't include him in any trades even for Votto. If anything, the deal will centre around Lind and maybe 2 pitching prospects like a Drabek, Alvarez, Hutchinson, Molina, McGuire.
Are you serious? AA would personalyl drive Gose to the airport if Jocketty ever agreed to that deal.
Agreed.
I'm sure the Jays brass are more than comfortable with the idea that Rasmus will patrol CF for the next decade in Toronto...
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:14 pm
by Strav
this will be a fun offseason. Jays have so many options available to them whether it's through FA or trades using their farm system. They are set up perfectly for a run at top spot in the East. I hope AA doesn't disappoint and strikes now. Getting Votto would be huge.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:08 pm
by YogiStewart
so let's pretend that they land Votto.
They're also going to likely re-up Rasmus plus give Cecil something (or trade for a pitcher that makes a lot more than Cecil).
they still need money for a legit DH and a legit 2B.
Trading for Votto ain't gonna happen unless they decide to go Steinbrenner on us for a 3 year window.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:28 pm
by Schad
YogiStewart wrote:so let's pretend that they land Votto.
They're also going to likely re-up Rasmus plus give Cecil something (or trade for a pitcher that makes a lot more than Cecil).
they still need money for a legit DH and a legit 2B.
Trading for Votto ain't gonna happen unless they decide to go Steinbrenner on us for a 3 year window.
Hardly. We have less than $40m committed next year, and Rasmus and Cecil -- as first year arbitration players -- aren't exactly going to break the bank. Rasmus will probably cost $3m or thereabouts, Cecil would be very lucky to get $2.5m. After re-upping all of our arbitration-eligible players, I'd imagine that we'd be at something around $52-55m, with 15-18 players under contract. There's going to be plenty of room to spend, with or without Votto. And I'm sorry, but turning down the ability to trade for an MVP-calibre player because we need a "legit DH" is absurd.
Re: OT: Reds will consider Votto trade this winter
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:52 pm
by hyper316
wow never knew votto was on the market, if possible, I'll rather have votto over fielder and pujols given the 2 years of control. pujols is going downhill and i think votto has better OBP than fielder and better defense too.
I don't think Reds would take Lind, he's a poor man's version of votto. i think reds rather have David Cooper to be honest
I'll throw Drabek, Snider, Cooper, and maybe McGuire?
SS Escobar (R)
CF Rasmus (L)
RF Bautista (R)
1B Votto (L)
DH Encarnacion (R)
LF Lind (L)
3B Lawrie (R)
2B --(not Hill)--
C Arencibia/D'Arnaud (R)
edit: I'd throw in Gose too since we have Rasmus and Davis as insurance. Gose is still far away from the big leagues