d'Arnaud wins Eastern league MVP

Griff83 · Post #1 » by **Griff83** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:59 pm

Just announced this afternoon

Awesome achievemant and prolly cements himself as the best catcher in the minors.

Wally West · Post #2 » by **Wally West** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:31 pm

Griff83 wrote:Just announced this afternoon

Awesome achievemant and prolly cements himself as the best catcher in the minors.

Naw the best catcher in the minors has to go to Devin Mesoraco of Cincinatti's minor league system. Dude's a best but D'arnaud is right behid him though.

Wally West · Post #3 » by **Wally West** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:32 pm

JaysProspects Jays Prospects
Well deserved, @Travisdarnaud! RT @BostonSportsU18: #NHFisherCats catcher Travis D'Arnaud named the 2011 Eastern League Player of the Year.

Nocturne · Post #4 » by **Nocturne** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:36 am

Nice. Is there any prediction on his timeline to getting to the majors? Any chance we'll see him this season?

Relentless88 · Post #5 » by **Relentless88** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:17 am

What happens to Arencibia when Travis is ready?

Evermore · Post #6 » by **Evermore** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:24 am

Is Jesus Montero no longer considered a catching prospect?

Trilogy · Post #7 » by **Trilogy** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:01 am

Relentless88 wrote:What happens to Arencibia when Travis is ready?

He probably gets dealt.

It'd hurt to see JPA go considering he's a pretty good dude all around and a nice young catcher, but it looks like D'Arnaud has a chance to be quite a bit better than him and I think the Jays brass feel the same way. It's not a given, but if D'Arnaud continues his progress, he should be a better defender and a better overall hitter, though with less power (but not too shabby in his own right).

I also think the fact that JPA is at the major league level is allowing the Jays to take a conservative approach with D'Arnaud. A lot of teams would have bumped him to AAA at some point this year. No need to rush him.

evilRyu · Post #8 » by **evilRyu** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:12 am

Trilogy wrote:
Relentless88 wrote:What happens to Arencibia when Travis is ready?

He probably gets dealt.

It'd hurt to see JPA go considering he's a pretty good dude all around and a nice young catcher, but it looks like D'Arnaud has a chance to be quite a bit better than him and I think the Jays brass feel the same way. It's not a given, but if D'Arnaud continues his progress, he should be a better defender and a better overall hitter, though with less power (but not too shabby in his own right).

I also think the fact that JPA is at the major league level is allowing the Jays to take a conservative approach with D'Arnaud. A lot of teams would have bumped him to AAA at some point this year. No need to rush him.

yeh i feel the exact same way, JPA has really embraced playing for Toronto, and is a very likeable dude..

BigLeagueChew · Post #9 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:01 am

JPA won mvp last year in the pcl but his catching abilities still need some work, same with d'arnaud.

d'arnaud has only thrown out 26% for base stealers this year which is the same thing jpa struggles with.

Actually, jpa was better at throwing out runners than d'arnaud has been so far in the minors. not good.

Skin Blues · Post #10 » by **Skin Blues** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:39 pm

CS% is a bad way to judge a catcher's ability to throw out runners. If he has a good arm, fringey base stealers won't even attempt to steal.

I wouldn't mind seeing a split between the two of them next season. Maybe bring d'Arnaud up after the Super 2 cutoff (might not be an issue after the new CBA)

Post #11 » by **OldNo7** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:46 pm

No reason JPA can't stay as a backup catcher/1B/DH, but considering Travis probably won't be ready to appear until 2013, it is too early to discuss this.

Hendrix · Post #12 » by **Hendrix** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:11 pm

OldNo7 wrote:No reason JPA can't stay as a backup catcher/1B/DH, but considering Travis probably won't be ready to appear until 2013, it is too early to discuss this.

Would he have any value in that role?

His bat doesn't play at either 1st or DH. And the value he'd give us playing ~50 games behind the plate probably wouldn't compensate for that as he's only a 1.1WAR player this year.

Imo he seems like he could be a pretty good pieces in a trade for a 1b, or SP if TD does prove he can hang here.

Post #13 » by **OldNo7** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:57 pm

Hendrix wrote:
OldNo7 wrote:No reason JPA can't stay as a backup catcher/1B/DH, but considering Travis probably won't be ready to appear until 2013, it is too early to discuss this.

Would he have any value in that role?

His bat doesn't play at either 1st or DH. And the value he'd give us playing ~50 games behind the plate probably wouldn't compensate for that as he's only a 1.1WAR player this year.

Imo he seems like he could be a pretty good pieces in a trade for a 1b, or SP if TD does prove he can hang here.

So Napoli has no value to a team? I disagree.

BigLeagueChew · Post #14 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:14 pm

Skin Blues wrote:CS% is a bad way to judge a catcher's ability to throw out runners. If he has a good arm, fringey base stealers won't even attempt to steal.

I wouldn't mind seeing a split between the two of them next season. Maybe bring d'Arnaud up after the Super 2 cutoff (might not be an issue after the new CBA)

Arencibia has a strong arm but it's not accurate and he could be quicker getting it out of his glove. Sometimes base stealers steal off the pitcher since they are so slow at delivering the ball to home plate, that is the only situation where cs% shouldn't mean as much.

PimpHandStrong · Post #15 » by **PimpHandStrong** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:33 pm

OldNo7 wrote:
Hendrix wrote:
OldNo7 wrote:No reason JPA can't stay as a backup catcher/1B/DH, but considering Travis probably won't be ready to appear until 2013, it is too early to discuss this.

Would he have any value in that role?

His bat doesn't play at either 1st or DH. And the value he'd give us playing ~50 games behind the plate probably wouldn't compensate for that as he's only a 1.1WAR player this year.

Imo he seems like he could be a pretty good pieces in a trade for a 1b, or SP if TD does prove he can hang here.

So Napoli has no value to a team? I disagree.

This season:

Napoli is a 3.8 win player, JP is a 1.1 win player.

Napoli has a wOBA of .415 (.410 adjusted for park effects), JP has a wOBA of .310 (.309 adjusted for park effects).

Napoli's bat plays at IB/DH, JP's bat doesn't (this season, anyway).

Skin Blues · Post #16 » by **Skin Blues** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:43 pm

BigLeagueChew wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:CS% is a bad way to judge a catcher's ability to throw out runners. If he has a good arm, fringey base stealers won't even attempt to steal.

I wouldn't mind seeing a split between the two of them next season. Maybe bring d'Arnaud up after the Super 2 cutoff (might not be an issue after the new CBA)

Arencibia has a strong arm but it's not accurate and he could be quicker getting it out of his glove. Sometimes base stealers steal off the pitcher since they are so slow at delivering the ball to home plate, that is the only situation where cs% shouldn't mean as much.

...or the fact that it is also a function of the quality of runners attempting to steal. Like I already mentioned.

Only the fastest, best base stealers attempt to run on a Molina brother (7/20) leads to a 35% CS%
Everybody and their brother attempts to run on Jorge Posada (35/100) leading to a 35% CS%.

If all the overweight scrubs that ran on Posada also ran on Molina, his CS% would be way higher. If only the best base stealers attempted to run against Posada, his CS% would be way lower. Obviously this is just hypothetical, and maybe in reality the Molina brother would still have a better CS% than Posada, but the gap between them would be much smaller than it should be. And of course as you mentioned, the pitcher often has more to do with a runner's ability to steal bases than the catcher does. Add it up, and CS% means diddly.

Weems · Post #17 » by **Weems** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:34 am

The blocking component of Arencibia's defence is also lacking. It's not all about caught stealings.

Skin Blues · Post #18 » by **Skin Blues** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:50 am

It's really not something that can have a number slapped on it by looking at stats. One of the few things in baseball that can't, actually. Just good old fashioned scouting because other than "pop time" and accuracy, there are way too many variables.

Post #19 » by **YogiStewart** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:00 am

Relentless88 wrote:What happens to Arencibia when Travis is ready?

this is 2 years away.
if/when the time comes, its one awesome problem for an organization to have.
and keep in mind: JPA needs to raise his average from the cellars to something a bit more respectable. and his catching game needs a wee bit of improvement.

Post #20 » by **OldNo7** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:15 pm

PimpHandStrong wrote:
OldNo7 wrote:
So Napoli has no value to a team? I disagree.

This season:

Napoli is a 3.8 win player, JP is a 1.1 win player.

Napoli has a wOBA of .415 (.410 adjusted for park effects), JP has a wOBA of .310 (.309 adjusted for park effects).

Napoli's bat plays at IB/DH, JP's bat doesn't (this season, anyway).

But we are talking about a guy in his prime vs. a rookie. In 2 years time I don't see why JPA can't begin to transition into a Napoli process. He isn't going to hit .210 for the rest of his career, and his WAR will likely increase if he has less starts behind the plate because he is below-average defensively right now.