Escobar/Hechavarria... SS/2B ?

[number15]

Well all this talk about there not being a decent 2B on the market and AA has no choice but to stick with Kelly Johnson, I say doesn't Adeiny Hechavarria seem way ahead of schedule? I was a skeptic, I thought this guy was over rated, probably fringe player at best with strong defense. Well I was wrong. The guy was one of the most valuable players in his league and one of the keys to the JAYS minor league success. The most suprrising thing is, he might be ready by next season possibly, and for sure in 2013 if not.

Theres your dilemma. Do you move a top notch shortstop like Yunel Escobar to second base to make room for this guy or do you keep Yunel at SS and Hechavarria can learn 2B alittle before being called up later in the season.

I personally groom Hech as the future 2B. Escobar has proven to be elite at SS....

your opinions?

[Relentless88]

Hech's value is at SS. It doesn't make much sense to bring him in to field 2B. I think the Jays will continue to be patient with him. They'll bring back Johnson (now that he's type A) and let Hech go through a full season at triple A. After that, they'll need to make some decisions.

The problem will be convincing Escobar to move to 2nd. If he's not willing, then we're going to have to deal one of them.

[kwamebargnani]

I don't see SS Escobar - (Hech Traded) option.

[number15]

I don't see SS Escobar - (Hech Traded) option.

fixed....

I just didnt think AA would go that route. I really think we will see Hech on the Jays roster eventually, with or without Escobar.

[WpgPage]

He still has miles to go offensively this is a conversation for next year or the year after, hes not even close to ready now.

[number15]

on a side note:

From a players point of view, wouldn't it have been better for Hech to sign with the NY Yankees rather than Toronto. I think they were offering more cash too, but the downside was they were thinking of him moving to 2B, or waiting for Jeter to be finished completely. He took the Toronto route cause we had no future SS anywhere in the system nearly as good as him.

Today he woulda been knocking on the doors of Jeter, just waiting to take over in NY. No way they move Canoe for him at 2B. Plus being paid more and being a guaranteed winner AND know if he performs, they will lock him up richly. That Iglasius kid is already seeing MLB time in Boston, and he is not on the same level at Hech. It would have been better for Hech.(no one can tell the future though, eh)

i dunno, if I'm in his position, I take NY, but im glad a Jays fan that we got him

[HangTime]

I think Escobar will play 2B. He played about 20 games at 2B his rookie season, sure he wouldn't mined going back. Escobar has a strong arm, but I believe Hech is better suited for SS. We'll have good range up the middle either way.

[Hendrix]

I'de rather trade Hech, and keep Escobar.

Both of these guys value is at SS. Hech doens't have the bat to play 2nd. And with Escobar being able to defend SS it is a boon for him to have the bat he does. But over at 2nd his bat wouldn't be all that special.

Escobar seems pretty reliable at around 4 WAR, so he's gotta be my guy if I had to pick, and he has a good relationship with the best player on the team. I'm not really sure if Hech could even put up those kind of numbers with his bat so might as well stick with the guy that is already proven.

I think we might as well hold on to Hech for the time being, cause things can change with Esco, or he might improve his trade value.

[vaff87]

I don't know how long Escobar will have the range to play short. He doesn't exactly have the ideal SS body-type. It would be risky to trade one of the best defensive SS in the world to keep Escobar at SS into his 30s, IMO.

[Michael Bradley]

The Jays signed Hech when they still had Alex Gonzalez at short. If the Gonzalez/Escobar trade never happened, then Hech is probably the projected starting SS in 2012 right now. Escobar's arrival and subsequent long-term extension hurt Hech's future with the Jays, although it is a great problem to have especially if Hech continues to hit (PCL inflated or not).

Escobar is the best two-way SS the team has had since Tony Fernandez. I would be reluctant to move him from there unless his defense slips considerably. Hech has to play SS. That is where all his value is. So give it one more year and deal with the issue then.

[Modern_epic]

I'de rather trade Hech, and keep Escobar.

Both of these guys value is at SS. Hech doens't have the bat to play 2nd. And with Escobar being able to defend SS it is a boon for him to have the bat he does. But over at 2nd his bat wouldn't be all that special.

Escobar seems pretty reliable at around 4 WAR, so he's gotta be my guy if I had to pick, and he has a good relationship with the best player on the team. I'm not really sure if Hech could even put up those kind of numbers with his bat so might as well stick with the guy that is already proven.

I think we might as well hold on to Hech for the time being, cause things can change with Esco, or he might improve his trade value.

You're overestimating the hitting gap between the two positions in recent years. While in the 80s and 90s there was a big gap, in the 21st century so far it is something like .010 points of OPS. Unless you are on the very edge of unplayable at SS, your bat plays at 2B now.

[Santoki]

Having never really played the game at a competitive level, can someone offer some insight into the differences between SS and 2B. If someone can play SS really well, what makes the transition to 2B more difficult. I can see the difficulty the other way around because of the increase in range needed, but what makes someone lose value by going from SS to 2B?

Edit - I mean defensively. As for offense, the whole notion of your bat not being "special" enough for 2B doesn't hold for me. Escobar's bat is good enough for either of the positions - Hech I don't know enough about to pass judgment.

[Anatomize]

Having never really played the game at a competitive level, can someone offer some insight into the differences between SS and 2B. If someone can play SS really well, what makes the transition to 2B more difficult. I can see the difficulty the other way around because of the increase in range needed, but what makes someone lose value by going from SS to 2B?

Edit - I mean defensively. As for offense, the whole notion of your bat not being "special" enough for 2B doesn't hold for me. Escobar's bat is good enough for either of the positions - Hech I don't know enough about to pass judgment.

Most of the top 2bs have a lot of power.. here is a list of the top 2b's and their homeruns compared to SS's:

Uggla : 36
Kinsler: 32
Cano: 28
Pedroia: 21
K.Johnson: 21
Espinosa: 21
Zobrist: 20
Cuddyer (interchangeable): 20
Weeks: 20

After this list you have about 7 or 8 second basemen with double digit homeruns.

SS:

Tulowitzki: 30
JJ Hardy: 30
A. Cabrera: 25
Peralta: 21

After this,you have 8 more shortstops with double digit homeruns.

Also, the RBI and Walk numbers on average are much higher for second basemen than shortstops. You can switch around 2b and SS, but for the most part, second basemen tend to have a larger role in the offense and are usually a stronger/more powerful bat.

Most teams' shortstops are usually contact hitters, and should be your best runner if not one of the best. 13 shortstops had over 20 steals compared to 7 second basemen.

[Modern_epic]

Having never really played the game at a competitive level, can someone offer some insight into the differences between SS and 2B. If someone can play SS really well, what makes the transition to 2B more difficult. I can see the difficulty the other way around because of the increase in range needed, but what makes someone lose value by going from SS to 2B?

Edit - I mean defensively. As for offense, the whole notion of your bat not being "special" enough for 2B doesn't hold for me. Escobar's bat is good enough for either of the positions - Hech I don't know enough about to pass judgment.

Most of the top 2bs have a lot of power.. here is a list of the top 2b's and their homeruns compared to SS's:

Uggla : 36
Kinsler: 32
Cano: 28
Pedroia: 21
K.Johnson: 21
Espinosa: 21
Zobrist: 20
Cuddyer (interchangeable): 20
Weeks: 20

After this list you have about 7 or 8 second basemen with double digit homeruns.

SS:

Tulowitzki: 30
JJ Hardy: 30
A. Cabrera: 25
Peralta: 21

After this,you have 8 more shortstops with double digit homeruns.

Also, the RBI and Walk numbers on average are much higher for second basemen than shortstops. You can switch around 2b and SS, but for the most part, second basemen tend to have a larger role in the offense and are usually a stronger/more powerful bat.

Most teams' shortstops are usually contact hitters, and should be your best runner if not one of the best. 13 shortstops had over 20 steals compared to 7 second basemen.

Focusing on HRs paints an incomplete picture. Yes, 2B hit for more power this year, but only slightly, as SS hit far and away more doubles. SS also had a slightly higher OBP when you look at the top 19 of each (not cherry picking, just the PA qualifying sample from Fangraphs). Combining those, SS was actually a slightly better hitting position this year.

Even if they stereotypically do their damage in a different way, a good hitter at one is a good hitter at the other right now.

[Weems]

In all fairness to Escobar, Hech should be a better fielder on him. Hopefully he can also become a halfway capable hitter and earn his promotion. Hech SS (or traded).

[number15]

Hech with his bat can kinda be the kind of 2B that we had in Orlando Hudson or Homer Bush...... defensive studs, with an average bat.

However, after reading all this, maybe its better for Escobar to at 2B and Hech can be so much more valueable at SS.... Escobar can hit with the top 2B in the MLB already and he has the defense.

[kavan]

If we moved Lawire to 3B im sure Hech coming up if he wants to ball in the big leauges will fit any void we ask of him! That will probably be 2B. I dont know why we brought back EE im still blown away. I still cant wait to see a healthy line up next year!

[LBJSeizedMyID]

What are you talking about kavan? EE as a super utility player is a great role for him? How can you be blown away?

[Randle McMurphy]

Escobar is a great defensive SS, there's certainly no reason to move him at all right now.

[s e n s i]

plus he has a high score in swag points. i think he's got 3 years of prime production left before we should actually start considering moving him to 2nd base or to another team. just like we shouldn't waste bautista's prime, we shouldn't waste esco's either...the guy is a legit all-star and perhaps the best SS in the AL.