RealGM

It really peeves me when a lot of you on here are so strongly against spending ROGERS money to improve the Blue Jays into a Play-off contender. Obviously you people have never received a $150 Rogers cellphone bill, or had them double-charge you, only to have to have to call in and tell them about their mistake. As you can see, I'm not remotely bitter.

Seriously though, if Rogers was intent on providing the fans winning baseball, there are the names out there this off-season to do it. Pujols, Reyes, Beltran, Wilson, Buehrle, etc... all make the Blue Jays significantly better. Is there a chance that one or more of these guys gets a huge contract he isn't worthy of (Jayson Werth)? YES!!! Is there a chance that one or more of these guys get a huge contract and plays for its entirety, showing value for the duration? YES!!!!

If Alex Anthopoulos and Rogers are not willing to take some risks, and spend some money, how do we plan to ever improve? AA can draft as many high-ceiling High School Pitchers as he'd like. At the end of the day Rogers, a company with nearly 9 BILLION in profits the last two years, is going to have to grow a set and open up the cheque book. We've all bared witness to seeing Doc's glory years pass by in front of us, only to have Rogers not bat an eye.

The point I'm trying to make is that if Rogers and AA are not willing to make these big deals, then it's all a wash. There is no good, there is no bad, there is nothing. I for one as a Blue Jays Fan am tired of constantly receiving nothing.

Here is a quote from an article about Ted Rogers purchase of the Blue Jays in 2000:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/09/01/000901bluejays.html

The move raises hopes that a deep-pocketed new owner will help rejuvenate a team that has fallen on hard times since winning the World Series twice in the early 1990's.

Blue Jays Fan's deserve better. How quickly eleven years of miserable baseball passes us by! The sooner Rogers realizes that a winning Blue Jays team has not only the City of Toronto behind it, but an entire Country (filled with Rogers customers) behind it, the better off we'll all be.

You don't spend money on free-agents to become a contender

You develop your youth until you're a contender and then spend in free-agency to put you over the top


The Jays were a .500 team last season

The only way a a top tier free-agent would CHOOSE Toronto is if the Jays are willing to grossly overpay for his services

Are you complaining that Rogers isn't willing to grossly overpay for available players?

I'm only against it when it doesn't make sense for the team. AA is trying to build this team into a perennial contender, not a one-year wonder ala Ricciardi. Signing high-priced free agents that are usually not worth the money risks losing young core pieces down the road due to financial inflexibility. And if the gamble doesn't pay off, you're SOL for years (see Vernon Wells).

I would like to see deal some of our excess minor league talent (such as at catcher) for some major league help, though.

Blah blah blah...honestly dude, calm down. Has it occured to you that maybe AA doesn't want to spend on free agents just yet? I think AA has earned the trust with the brass and the fans and has said when it comes time to open the wallet, Rogers will sign the paycheque. Telling everyone that he should be spending money now and blaming Rogers just cheapens the Blue Jays brand...a brand that AA is trying to repair. Let AA execute his plan before crucifying Rogers. When he was hired I personally wanted him to build from the ground up, and that's what he's working on achieving. I figured it would take five years, but at year four I figured at least one marquee signing would take place.

The last thing you want is him to pull a JP Riccardi abandon the plan early because the Jays are showing more progress than you thought only to fail. It makes everyone look bad and the average fan would just ask for the GM's head.

I'm not against spending money, but I'd like to be prudent about it because I believe we have a budget. We're in a more favourable position to spend now than ever before, but I'll believe we don't have restrictions on spending when I see it. I don't know if allocating $25-28m a year for a lot of years to Pujols or Fielder is justified if it means we'll be limited in upgrading other positions.

Weems wrote:I'm not against spending money, but I'd like to be prudent about it because I believe we have a budget. We're in a more favourable position to spend now than ever before, but I'll believe we don't have restrictions on spending when I see it. I don't know if allocating $25-28m a year for a lot of years to Pujols or Fielder is justified if it means we'll be limited in upgrading other positions.

So you don't expect our budget to be big enough to fit in ONE superstar player?

Isn't that kind of a problem?

No one is against spending money.

They're against spending money foolishly.

Exhibit A: JPR

/thread

I hate Rogers. I hate their overpriced internet and cell phone plans. But they re building this team the right way. Nobody here is against spending money. They just dont want money spent stupidly.

I trust AA. Hes got nothing but rave reviews and lots of analysts and GMs have said that we ll make the playoffs for sure in the next 2 years. I see no reason to not trust Beeston especially when hes said multiple times in public that they will spend 150 million when the time is right. I dont see why would say that repeatedly publicly if they didnt have an intention to do it. They would be crucified otherwise.

I see one of the most talented farm systems in the MLB. In a year they re going to start producing some really highly quality MLBers. Sickels was raving about their farm system and they ve got nothing but good reviews.

http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2011/11/jo ... aysFans%29

I understand the rationale. They want to build a core of talented players first before going after guys in the free agent market. I guess it comes down to whether or not you trust AA and I do. Ive waited 18 years now so why would I not wait another year or two if I we can get something special here.

Tell you what if there was a better FA market or we didn't have a chance to have like 8 first round picks I would say spend away.

The MLB is like the NHL, the more you spend on veterans, the more youth and prospects lost.

I think our system is so stacked and our farm so deep that we should wait 1 last year (After this year compensation changes) and abuse the old system before we can't any longer.

I'm not against Rogers spending money as much as I'm against forfeiture of picks for a weak free agent market.

Mind as well use our strategy the last year it works.

Not against spending at all. I am against spending just for the sake of spending.

flatjacket1 wrote:Tell you what if there was a better FA market or we didn't have a chance to have like 8 first round picks I would say spend away.

The MLB is like the NHL, the more you spend on veterans, the more youth and prospects lost.

I think our system is so stacked and our farm so deep that we should wait 1 last year (After this year compensation changes) and abuse the old system before we can't any longer.

I'm not against Rogers spending money as much as I'm against forfeiture of picks for a weak free agent market.

Mind as well use our strategy the last year it works.

Weak free agent market? This is an amazing free agent market. Who do you expect to hit free agency next year?

OldNo7 wrote:Not against spending at all. I am against spending just for the sake of spending.

Are you against spending to make the team much better, like by adding a superstar 1B?

Kurtz wrote:Weak free agent market? This is an amazing free agent market. Who do you expect to hit free agency next year?

Its just what the experts say.

This free-agent class is one of the thinnest I've ever seen, made thinner by the signing during the closed period of CC Sabathia (originally No. 3 on this list). There are only a few clear high-impact players and a handful of high-risk/high-reward guys, but there's depth in potential average starters in the outfield, in back-end starting pitchers and in the bullpen.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove ... ts-2011-12

2013 free agency will likely include:
Mike Napoli, Howie Kendrick, Brandon Phillips, Matt Cain, Jonathan Broxton, Kyle Farnsworth, Brandon League, Mike Adams, Zack Greinke, Cole Hamels, Francisco Liriano, Shaun Marcum, Carlos Zambrano, Andre Ethier, Melky Cabrera, Michael Bourn, B.J. Upton to name a few.

Kurtz wrote:

Weems wrote:I'm not against spending money, but I'd like to be prudent about it because I believe we have a budget. We're in a more favourable position to spend now than ever before, but I'll believe we don't have restrictions on spending when I see it. I don't know if allocating $25-28m a year for a lot of years to Pujols or Fielder is justified if it means we'll be limited in upgrading other positions.

So you don't expect our budget to be big enough to fit in ONE superstar player?

Isn't that kind of a problem?

I didn't say that, no. I meant if we're operating under a budget, it may not be best to spend $28m a year on one player when we have so many other holes on our team. We've only once had a payroll over $82m... so basically I'm pessimistic that we're truly going to open our wallets and spend. We should. There's no doubt that AA should get the opportunity to spend money.

I will say that spending $250m+ on one player (who may or may not be older than his listed age) IS risky. Even if he is almost God. That doesn't mean I'm not on board with Pujols or Fielder though.

flatjacket1 wrote:

Kurtz wrote:Weak free agent market? This is an amazing free agent market. Who do you expect to hit free agency next year?

Its just what the experts say.

This free-agent class is one of the thinnest I've ever seen, made thinner by the signing during the closed period of CC Sabathia (originally No. 3 on this list). There are only a few clear high-impact players and a handful of high-risk/high-reward guys, but there's depth in potential average starters in the outfield, in back-end starting pitchers and in the bullpen.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove ... ts-2011-12

2013 free agency will likely include:
Mike Napoli, Howie Kendrick, Brandon Phillips, Matt Cain, Jonathan Broxton, Kyle Farnsworth, Brandon League, Mike Adams, Zack Greinke, Cole Hamels, Francisco Liriano, Shaun Marcum, Carlos Zambrano, Andre Ethier, Melky Cabrera, Michael Bourn, B.J. Upton to name a few.

Alright, well obviously a lot of these guys won't hit the market.

But even if they ALL hit the market, this class is at best on par with the current class. Much better pitchers, but no positional players even close to the quality of Pujols/Fielder/Reyes, and no closers as good as the FA closers this year.

And not to mention that if one of the two true gems of that class hits the market - Cain/Hamels, we'll be competing against the Yankees and Red Sox for their services.

Meanwhile, for Pujols/Fielder, we're competing against Milwakee, StLouis and Florida.


So which market is better situated for us?

There is no good excuse not to spend this offseason, not with Jose Bautista still being wasted on this roster, the playoffs being closer than ever before, and the elite players that are available.

Rogers has always treated the Jays like a small-market team, though, and I doubt we'll see that change any time soon.

Kurtz wrote:Alright, well obviously a lot of these guys won't hit the market.

But even if they ALL hit the market, this class is at best on par with the current class. Much better pitchers, but no positional players even close to the quality of Pujols/Fielder/Reyes, and no closers as good as the FA closers this year.

And not to mention that if one of the two true gems of that class hits the market - Cain/Hamels, we'll be competing against the Yankees and Red Sox for their services.

Meanwhile, for Pujols/Fielder, we're competing against Milwakee, StLouis and Florida.


So which market is better situated for us?

I'm going to have to side with ESPN on this one. This is a weak and thin FA market. Pujols has age questions and Fielder has weight questions, both are huge risk and in line to be grossly overpaid. The current offers on the table are more than I'd be willing to spend.

I think your a little to eager. If I wasn't going to be around next year I'd say go for it now but it makes the most sense to wait.

FreeAgent wrote:No one is against spending money.

They're against spending money foolishly.

Exhibit A: JPR

/thread

This.

Honestly though, if Rogers were to announce that they didn't care about profits, and were content to spend to a payroll greater than the Yankees, I'd be thrilled for them to overpay anybody.

However, in the real world, Rogers has a budget for the Jays - and they won't go over it. Spending money foolishly by overpaying one player, means less in the kitty for other players we want to acquire.

MLB may not have a salary cap, but the Jays do.

I agree theres no point of spending money if were not contending and theres no point of spending it for the sake of it. We also have a lot of question marks, but at the same time...when are we going to have the opportunity to go after two of the best 1st basemens in the league (which we need to protect Bautista desperately).

We were 81-81 last year. There's no doubt in my mind, acquiring a closer (sign/trade), a 1st basemen (sign/trade), the development of Lawrie and others will make us contenders...especially with the added wild card.

Weems wrote:I'm not against spending money, but I'd like to be prudent about it because I believe we have a budget. We're in a more favourable position to spend now than ever before, but I'll believe we don't have restrictions on spending when I see it. I don't know if allocating $25-28m a year for a lot of years to Pujols or Fielder is justified if it means we'll be limited in upgrading other positions.

Every team in the league has a budget, in fact; even the Yankees and Red Sox. They simply rake in more income than we do, by a considerable degree.

I very much want Rogers to spend some money, but the idea that they should be willing to lose $40-50m a year because the company is rich is absurd...only one team in baseball (the Tigers) has regularly lost money, and their owner is having second thoughts about continuing that practice.

Pujols, Reyes, Beltran, Wilson, Buehrle, etc... all make the Blue Jays significantly better. Is there a chance that one or more of these guys gets a huge contract he isn't worthy of (Jayson Werth)? YES!!! Is there a chance that one or more of these guys get a huge contract and plays for its entirety, showing value for the duration? YES!!!!

Even if our budget were $150m a year or something, you still have to make wise spending choices. You can't simply throw money at each and every player that comes along and hope that they are worth it. No team does that. No team should do that. It's terrible management.