RealGM

Alex Anthopoulos, the Jays' general manager, is widely respected by his peers for his work, with other general managers praising him for the process he has developed, and for the decisions he has made. But in a division already inhabited by the richest teams, the Yankees and the Red Sox, the Blue Jays are spending about 35 percent of what the financial monsters are -- and Toronto's payroll seems to be going down, rather than increasing.

The year-by-year payroll, according to Cot's:
2007: $82 million
2008: $98 million
2009: $81 million
2010: $79 million
2011: $71 million

And sources say the Jays are much more likely to hold or cut their payroll than to increase it. Which means right now, Toronto is much closer to being in the same situation as the Tampa Bay Rays than they are competing financially with the big spenders of the AL East.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/n ... fields-mlb

If anyone has suggestions for a less awkwardly worded headline, I'm all ears.

There was so much positive buzz around this team, it seems like since the Darvish debacle it's completely fallen off a cliff.

Sadly, every one of this past two week's articles seems to be screaming "Trade Bautista!" to me, even though none actually say it.

That's Rogers for you!

Rhettmatic wrote:If anyone has suggestions for a less awkwardly worded headline, I'm all ears.

Um, "Dagger correct; Rogers are scumbags"?

Who knows what the truth is anymore? AA has made it clear that when it comes to his intentions, everything you know is wrong. All leaks must ipso facto be wrong, because his inner circle doesn't leak. Information that is put there is actually disinformation, to aid him in his negotiations with agents and general managers.

After the Darvish "fiasco" (at least in terms of the time I spent tracking it when I should have been working) , I can't be bothered trying to read the entrails. Wake me up when spring training begins. If there's a competitive, improved team, I might deign to pay attention and buy tickets.

I believe that about as much as I believe in unicorns.

Its not like that actually got that from a reliable source. If the Fielder deal ever gets to a point where its good value, AA will sign him.

tecumseh18 wrote:

Rhettmatic wrote:If anyone has suggestions for a less awkwardly worded headline, I'm all ears.

Um, "Dagger correct; Rogers are scumbags"?

I like it.

If there were good deals to be had I'm sure Jays would sign them. If Fielder would sign for 5/100 , I don't think Jays would pass.

I'd like to have known where the Jays were with Beltran on a contract offer. Apparently, the Jays put one forth, but Beltran turn it down.

To me, that was the one that was most achievable. I can't imagine that Beltran would have turned the Jays down had they sweetened the pot slightly, i.e. instead of 2/26 that he signed for, maybe 2/28. But maybe he did...

Get ready for another year of contending for 3rd place in the AL East. I'm hoping "the time is right" next off-season at the least. Wonder what the reaction will be if the Jays play this same act a year from now.

torontoaces04 wrote:

tecumseh18 wrote:

Rhettmatic wrote:If anyone has suggestions for a less awkwardly worded headline, I'm all ears.

Um, "Dagger correct; Rogers are scumbags"?

I like it.

I like it too!

Translation: If the Jays don't sign Fielder, payroll will likely not increase. Duhhh. There's really no other free agents that the Jays realistically would be interested in except for Edwin Jackson. Sounds like a slow news day to me.

I wish I could have been proven wrong, that someone would rub a big signing in my face and say, see, You're full of it. Seriously. I'd love nothing more than to see a bit of additional spending, even if it just showed the way towards a $100 million payroll over two or three seasons.

But I know better and I know BS when I see it, and Beeston's "we will spend it when the fans come" is about the stupidest rationale for not spending I have ever heard. I mean, what business takes that philosophy? You'd flunk Business 101. And we're supposed to swallow that horse manure?

I knew we were in trouble when no one from the Jays complained about the new CBA which throttles draft and Latin signings which AA has used greatly to advantage. No one talked about reallocating some of the funds spent on signings. Then came the Santos deal, which has good merit on baseball terms, but AA went on and on about the financial side.

Then with the Darvish flop, the refusal to make reasonably competitive offers for top free agents, and so on, it should be clear that Rogers has ordered AA to keep the major league payroll at or below current levels. I even wonder if Kelly Johnson's decision to accept arbitration was unexpected - that the plan was to find a cheaper option for 2B.

And then there was that nasty tidbit about the new CBA costing Rogers its revenue sharing payments in 2014.

The option of being Tampa Bay North is loaded with risks.

1) Does the new CBA with its caps on signing bonuses make the option harder to sustain?

2) Does Miami's big pitch to the Latin market make it harder to sign young Latins, because Tampa Bay didn't play that card aggressively.

3) Does Toronto have the development system to take good picks and turn them into good major leaguers. Tampa has done exceptionally well here, not only turning good young arms and bats into major leaguers but giving the pitchers in particular an identity - a Tampa Bay way of pitching - as they are brought along.

4) Once we have a team full of our current high-end prospects, will Rogers spend money to keep them, or will we be letting the future equivalents of Carl Crawford go as soon as they get closer to their higher yielding arb years and free agency? I think Lawrie is safe because he's really the first and won't hit really big money until after Bautista's deal is over, and of course he's Canadian which is a plus for ratings, but what about an Alvarez if we have minor league pitching depth? And what about Santos when those more expensive options kick in and there is a closer on the market for half the price (and for a reason)?

5) Joey Votto. A lot of posters have been saying this winter, let's save our FA money for two years when Votto hits the market, but what assurance is there that he will leave Cincy, what assurance is there that he will give the cheap bastards at Rogers a discount, and if he wants market rates for his talent, what assurance is there Rogers will even spend on him? I think Votto is a pipedream for fans of cheapo outfit, something like anaesthesia to make you forget the pain while the dentist drills down into a molar.

I don't think Rogers is going to spend until the fans and media turn up the heat on these bastards. But I will make one prediction - there is no downside risk on lighting a roaring fire under the collective arse of Rogers management. They are making money on this team. They aren't going to move the team because they won't want to lose 162 days and nights of content they control for a pittance intend to peddle across every kind of platform imaginable.

Fans have to understand this - they do have leverage here, but they have to swear off the Beeston Kool-Aid and demand more. A lot more. Rogers does have an image to think about and while they may turn a deaf ear to most consumer complaints, I don't think they want a constant media pounding for being a bad stewart of a community asset from which they are sucking a great deal of (cleverly concealed) profit.

LBJSeizedMyID wrote:Translation: If the Jays don't sign Fielder, payroll will likely not increase. Duhhh. There's really no other free agents that the Jays realistically would be interested in except for Edwin Jackson. Sounds like a slow news day to me.

That's a dubious argument because six weeks ago there were lots of free agents who would have improved this team.

*Insert "If not for Rogers, the Jays would have been long gone from Toronto!" counter-argument*

Rhettmatic wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/n ... fields-mlb

If anyone has suggestions for a less awkwardly worded headline, I'm all ears.

How about Buster pulls another fabricated rumour out of thin air?

LBJSeizedMyID wrote:Translation: If the Jays don't sign Fielder, payroll will likely not increase. Duhhh. There's really no other free agents that the Jays realistically would be interested in except for Edwin Jackson. Sounds like a slow news day to me.

Yep. All the other free agents on the market probably want big deals so hes just forecasting this to the logical conclusion.

And the Tampa Bay thing isnt a surprise at all. That was the intention all along except unlike Tampa Bay the Jays would have the ability to re sign their players.

I know it's been said countless times, but people are losing sight of the team we actually have, a team that was probably 5th or 6th best in the majors last year.

With full seasons from Lawrie, Rasmus, Alvarez, Santos, Johnson, Jansen, Litsch, McGowan, (Drabek?, Hutcheson?) significant weak spots on the team last year are bound to get stronger. Other players might regress, but you can easily make the argument that the Jays will already be significantly better this year than last. If the boston crapshow continues, we could finish third in the division, easily. If we are still contending in July, we'll have the luxury of adding significant payroll in trades that might offer much better talent/value. Call me an apologist if you want, but without a solid foundation in place, free agents are not going to sign here, or only sign at a significant premium. Look where they all signed this year: Texas, Anaheim (contenders) and Florida (ridiculous overpayers).

Jimmy King wrote:I know it's been said countless times, but people are losing sight of the team we actually have, a team that was probably 5th or 6th best in the majors last year.

=snip=

Call me an apologist if you want, but without a solid foundation in place, free agents are not going to sign here, or only sign at a significant premium. Look where they all signed this year: Texas, Anaheim (contenders) and Florida (ridiculous overpayers).

So if i understand you correctly, the team we actually have is the 5th or 6th best in the majors - essentially a top 20% team.

Wouldn't that mean we already have a solid foundation in place, and we can (and should) be going after free agents?

Since when does anyone know anything about how our management operates? Watch us sign Fielder tomorrow.