RealGM

The Athletics wanted right-hander Noah Syndergaard from the Blue Jays as part of any trade for Gio Gonzalez, reported Jeff Blair on the Fan590's Prime Time Sports radio show (passed on by Andrew Stoeten of the Drunk Jays Fans blog.) Syndergaard was drafted 38th overall by Toronto in the 2010 draft and has posted impressive numbers in his first two years of pro ball.

http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2011/12/bl ... r-gio.html
I would've laughed at Billy Beane.

2nd baseman kinda chubby, no?

an unproven pitcher for an all-star pitcher? sign me up for Gio. the deal probably went through because of other prospects in the deal. if it's 1 for 1, it's really a no brainer you should take Gio

SharoneWright wrote:

2nd baseman kinda chubby, no?

HAHAHAHAHA! Who the hell is that?!

hyper316 wrote:an unproven pitcher for an all-star pitcher? sign me up for Gio. the deal probably went through because of other prospects in the deal. if it's 1 for 1, it's really a no brainer you should take Gio

Its not a straight up 1 for 1 deal, we have a package to go along with it. Its a question on whether or not you'd throw in Noah to make the Gio deal.

For those who don't know Noah, he is a flamethrowing minor league pitcher who can hit triple digits on the radar gun. 38th overall in 2010, touching only 95 in HS, hes done nothing but turn heads since being drafted. Minor league career ERA of 1.99 in 72.1 innings, striking out 9.2/9 innings and walking on 2.7/9.
https://twitter.com/#!/ShiDavidi/status ... 2223172608

Gio is expected by some to turn out like AJ Burnet. Hit LOB% and FIP both suggest he is getting really lucky. Even though he may be an All-Star don't forget he was pitching in a really pitcher friendly park with above average defense. Keith Law doesn't like him.

If it was 1 for 1 Noah for Gio I'd still do it, but I have a feeling we offered a pretty hefty package and Beane asked for Noah.

flatjacket1 wrote:

hyper316 wrote:an unproven pitcher for an all-star pitcher? sign me up for Gio. the deal probably went through because of other prospects in the deal. if it's 1 for 1, it's really a no brainer you should take Gio

Its not a straight up 1 for 1 deal, we have a package to go along with it. Its a question on whether or not you'd throw in Noah to make the Gio deal.

For those who don't know Noah, he is a flamethrowing minor league pitcher who can hit triple digits on the radar gun. 38th overall in 2010, touching only 95 in HS, hes done nothing but turn heads since being drafted. Minor league career ERA of 1.99 in 72.1 innings, striking out 9.2/9 innings and walking on 2.7/9.
https://twitter.com/#!/ShiDavidi/status ... 2223172608

Gio is expected by some to turn out like AJ Burnet. Hit LOB% and FIP both suggest he is getting really lucky. Even though he may be an All-Star don't forget he was pitching in a really pitcher friendly park with above average defense. Keith Law doesn't like him.

If it was 1 for 1 Noah for Gio I'd still do it, but I have a feeling we offered a pretty hefty package and Beane asked for Noah.

This.
People don't understand the potential this kid has and why we can't give him up in any trade. And it makes sense that AA it the same way being how the Jays took him way higher then where he was projected to go in the draft back in 2010. They see the massive/unlimited potential this kid has. Maybe 1 for 1, you'd probably do the deal but as a centerpiece for a guy like Gio's calibre. Hell no.

no.

if you didn't vote hell no, give your head a shake...

1 for 1 you would have to make the deal or you are straight up crazy. So it really depends on the rest of the haul.

A guy down In A ball is not worth a young all star pitcher. You have to remember that Noah is only a 50/50 proposition as a major leaguer at this point.

baulderdash77 wrote:1 for 1 you would have to make the deal or you are straight up crazy. So it really depends on the rest of the haul.

A guy down In A ball is not worth a young all star pitcher. You have to remember that Noah is only a 50/50 proposition as a major leaguer at this point.

Gio made the all-star team simply because of the fact that he played for the Oakland A's. They didn't have anyone else to send from the squad, so he won by default. None of his numbers are impressive, and in the AL East, his ERA would be well over 4.

Syndergaard probably has the most upside on any pitcher in our organization, and with a system as deep as ours, that's saying something. They certainly would have wanted him, ++ in a package, and I would have laughed at that. Even straight-up, 1-for-1, I likely don't pull the trigger on that deal. Not sold on Gio whatsoever.

Would I trade Syndergaard for Garza straight-up? MAYBE...

On one hand gio isnt the guy you move blue chip guys for imop. But a one for one deal with a strong young mlb starter vs an early in his minors guy isnt such an easy choice. That said im sure this wasnt a one for one deal. Bean was reportedly demanding alot more, and got alot more. So by that fact im sure he wanted noah, plus a package including another blue chip guy and a mid level prospect at least. And to that i would say hell to the no. For a guy like gio the package id a been willing to send out would be some thing including guys like thames/snider/cecil/drabek. Not nearly all of those, maybe one hitter one pitcher. And i really dont want to give up on either pitcher..

How many people in the league pitch over 100 MPH and can walk less than 3 batters a game? In Verlanders MLB career he walked 2.8/9 innings, while 2.7/9 inning is Noah's numbers.

So that kind of power with that kind of control is hard to come by. Its also worth noting the walk rate went down when he moved up a league.

There's only 1 real way you stop throwing 100 and that is you break your arm so that's the only real chance of him busting.

Hes only 18 years old and could be seeing some time in AA this season if his time in A/A+ works out. Next at this time could easily be our top prospect.

flatjacket1 wrote:How many people in the league pitch over 100 MPH and can walk less than 3 batters a game? In Verlanders MLB career he walked 2.8/9 innings, while 2.7/9 inning is Noah's numbers.

So that kind of power with that kind of control is hard to come by. Its also worth noting the walk rate went down when he moved up a league.

There's only 1 real way you stop throwing 100 and that is you break your arm so that's the only real chance of him busting.

Hes only 18 years old and could be seeing some time in AA this season if his time in A/A+ works out. Next at this time could easily be our top prospect.

The minors are filled with guys who have rocket laser arms who never make it far into the majors. And you cant really compare his low level minor league stats to established mlb pitchers like that. Not at a 1:1 ratio. If it was that simple we'd just call him up now.

wbbfan wrote:The minors are filled with guys who have rocket laser arms who never make it far into the majors. And you cant really compare his low level minor league stats to established mlb pitchers like that. Not at a 1:1 ratio. If it was that simple we'd just call him up now.

You are very right my friend. Most arms (especially arms) blow up before making it to the Majors, but still even in the minors pitchers who reach triple digits are a rarity. Not only does he hit triple digits but his BB/9 is similar to that of Verlander. He needs to develop more pitches/stamina before hes ready but hes looking like he at least has a ticket punched for the high minors. He will probably finish next year in AA, if he continues to dominate A ball like this.

I expect him to make extended spring training and might even end up competing for a rotation spot as soon as 2013 (as a 19 year old).

Of course all of that is best case scenario. Even if Noah made it to the MLB top 20 prospects list, there is a 60% bust rate of being a pitcher on that list (40% for non pitchers)

wbbfan wrote:

flatjacket1 wrote:How many people in the league pitch over 100 MPH and can walk less than 3 batters a game? In Verlanders MLB career he walked 2.8/9 innings, while 2.7/9 inning is Noah's numbers.

So that kind of power with that kind of control is hard to come by. Its also worth noting the walk rate went down when he moved up a league.

There's only 1 real way you stop throwing 100 and that is you break your arm so that's the only real chance of him busting.

Hes only 18 years old and could be seeing some time in AA this season if his time in A/A+ works out. Next at this time could easily be our top prospect.

The minors are filled with guys who have rocket laser arms who never make it far into the majors. And you cant really compare his low level minor league stats to established mlb pitchers like that. Not at a 1:1 ratio. If it was that simple we'd just call him up now.

I understand exactly what flatjacket1 is tryna say especially in a division like this. You need all the potential superstar type capibre position players and pitchers you can possibly find to contend with the likes of the Yankees, Red Sox and Tampa Bay Rays so why give up by far our highest upside pitcher in a deal for a mid tier rotation pitcher that's only one 1 star calibre season? Not saying that Noah Syndergaard's gonna become the next Justin Verlander but there's something about this kid and that 6'5 frame and 100mph arm that you just can't give up on this stage in his career.

blackflash234 wrote:Not saying that Noah Syndergaard's gonna become the next Justin Verlander but there's something about this kid and that 6'5 frame and 100mph arm that you just can't give up on this stage in his career.

102 MPH my friend. Those extra 2 mean a lot when talking max velocity

Still a huge bust rate but hes a top tier prospect. No doubt about it.

flatjacket1 wrote:

blackflash234 wrote:Not saying that Noah Syndergaard's gonna become the next Justin Verlander but there's something about this kid and that 6'5 frame and 100mph arm that you just can't give up on this stage in his career.

102 MPH my friend. Those extra 2 mean a lot when talking max velocity

Still a huge bust rate but hes a top tier prospect. No doubt about it.

Yeah 102mph! Man.. and 18 year old throwing 102mph! That's just absurd when you think about it. Out of all the pitchers we possess in our system, this kid should easily be the guy that's untouchable. Nicolino, Sanchez, Hutchinson, McGuire and Jenkins of course could be had if the deal's right but it'll have to take a massive offer for AA to give up Syndergaard. Think about it, we wouldn't of gone to those lengths and taken Syndergaard as high as we did back in 2010 just to give up on him for a mid tier rotation player. I look forward to seeing how far this kid progresses to next season.

blackflash234 wrote:

flatjacket1 wrote:

blackflash234 wrote:Not saying that Noah Syndergaard's gonna become the next Justin Verlander but there's something about this kid and that 6'5 frame and 100mph arm that you just can't give up on this stage in his career.

102 MPH my friend. Those extra 2 mean a lot when talking max velocity

Still a huge bust rate but hes a top tier prospect. No doubt about it.

Yeah 102mph! Man.. and 18 year old throwing 102mph! That's just absurd when you think about it. Out of all the pitchers we possess in our system, this kid should easily be the guy that's untouchable. Nicolino, Sanchez, Hutchinson, McGuire and Jenkins of course could be had if the deal's right but it'll have to take a massive offer for AA to give up Syndergaard. Think about it, we wouldn't of gone to those lengths and taken Syndergaard as high as we did back in 2010 just to give up on him for a mid tier rotation player. I look forward to seeing how far this kid progresses to next season.

Nobody predicted him to gain like 7 MPH on his fastball, don't forget he was drafted based on the 93-95 MPH fastball. What he is right now is due to the hard work he must have put in. His numbers are unbelievable, I've seen a lot of prospects that possess nearly as much power but without the control. His changeup is reportedly average and his curve is slightly above, and those secondary pitches are something he needs to improve a lot on to make it to the show so hes not here yet.

Hes only 18 and still has a ways to go but assuming he goes without injury, he is a poor mans Strasbourg (Similar BB/9 and SO/9 at age 21 in AA/AAA). If he has a year last last he is easily top 20 in the league and the best in our system. That is assuming he doesn't encounter any nasty injuries (Which tend to be more likely with flamethrowers).

I wouldn't label anybody untouchable in our system but I don't like the idea of trading away prospects yet. We had a good year last year and some of the great 2010 draft are starting to make their way up to AA/AAA (Noah) so it'll be nice to see what we have. Right now I think on the trading front we should hold. I wouldn't mind seeing us sign Edwin Jackson for 1 year or something but hey, we have an exciting farm system.