OT: Expanded 2012 Playoffs close

[LittleOzzy]

The finagling over how to implement baseball’s expanded playoff format in time for the 2012 season continues, and Toronto Blue Jays reliever Carlos Villanueva is among those pushing to make it happen.

Under terms of the new collective bargaining agreement, a second wildcard team in each league is to be added by the 2013 season but commissioner Bud Selig has said he’d like to see the post-season expanded for the upcoming year.

Villanueva, elected by the players association’s executive board as an alternate representative in December, said Wednesday that the union has seen a proposed schedule and offered some feedback, adding, "I’m confident that we can get something done."

"Personally, I would like it to happen," he said. "I think it’s an opportunity, especially for a team like us, to get involved deeper in the race. But it depends on if both sides can get together and make something work."

The unresolved issues revolve primarily around scheduling, how best to shoehorn the one-game playoff into the existing post-season schedule, how to ensure that a team doesn’t have to make multiple cross-continent flights within a short span and how to satisfy the needs of the TV networks.

"It’s just planning everything out so everybody feels comfortable," said Villanueva. "We’re trying to work it out so it’s going to be fair."

March 1 has been mentioned as a deadline to get things done, but Villanueva said that wasn’t necessarily the case.

"I think if we’re going to do it, as long as we have something done before the season, I don’t see a problem, or why it couldn’t happen that way," he said.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/ ... offs-close

[A-Mac78]

Why are they adding a one game wildcard playoff to expand the post season? It's moronic.

Copy the NFL system. 12 teams make the post season, the top 2 teams in each league get a first round bie. Much better for everyone, more ticket and tv revenue plus no more AL East being the division of doom for the Jays. They would just have to finish in the top 6 in the AL.

[Kaizen]

That would make sense but they do not want the season going much longer. MLB, and a lot of other people, already think the season is too long.

[Schad]

Why are they adding a one game wildcard playoff to expand the post season? It's moronic.

Copy the NFL system. 12 teams make the post season, the top 2 teams in each league get a first round bie. Much better for everyone, more ticket and tv revenue plus no more AL East being the division of doom for the Jays. They would just have to finish in the top 6 in the AL.

The issue is that doing so would mean either regular season games in March, or World Series games in November, neither of which are desirable.

[kavan]

Cut 10 games off the season and add a 3 game play off round for that extra wild card spot or add 2 extra teams on each side and give one a by. Hmm. Playoff ball is much more fun to watch an would generate much more rev.

[SharoneWright]

1-game playoffs are the definition of 'wildcard'.

[flatjacket1]

1-game playoffs are the definition of 'wildcard'.

This is very true. Especially in baseball. Sports like basketball are hard to upset in 7 game series due to the amount of points scored having variance play its course. In baseball, it takes a heck of a lot more games to get similar types of variance.

That's part of the reason the playoffs (even with 7 games series later on) is a crap shoot. Billy Beane even said something along the lines of "It's my job to make playoffs, after that its a crap shoot", which even with all of the wrong things in money ball is actually right.

1 game is just something else.

[satyr9]

1-game playoffs are the definition of 'wildcard'.

I've actually changed my mind about 1 gamers completely since I heard about them, but I want it expanded. One thing I don't much like about larger playoffs is how much it negates coming in first overall, that includes now with just the one WC. So give me 7 playoff teams in each league, but 2-7 play 3 1 game WC playoffs and first is the only team with a bye.

I know that won't be everyone's cup of tea, it wouldn't have been mine a couple months ago either, but I've warmed up to the idea. That I dramatically prefer to making 4th and 5th the equivalent to 2nd tier playoff teams who don't rate a series. Embrace the 1 game playoff!

[SharoneWright]

1-game playoffs are the definition of 'wildcard'.

I've actually changed my mind about 1 gamers completely since I heard about them, but I want it expanded. One thing I don't much like about larger playoffs is how much it negates coming in first overall, that includes now with just the one WC. So give me 7 playoff teams in each league, but 2-7 play 3 1 game WC playoffs and first is the only team with a bye.

I know that won't be everyone's cup of tea, it wouldn't have been mine a couple months ago either, but I've warmed up to the idea. That I dramatically prefer to making 4th and 5th the equivalent to 2nd tier playoff teams who don't rate a series. Embrace the 1 game playoff!

Totally agree with you. As a traditionalist, I think a 162-game schedule should give the winners a few perks. Any team making the playoffs through the wildcard should just be happy to be there. Add 1 extra, 2 extra, 5 extra wildcards..... 1-game playoffs are plenty-enough for the 2nd and 3rd place teams of their divisions. Its a lottery for teams who can't win their division.

[Michael Bradley]

The only good thing about expanded playoffs is it rewards the division winner. Other than that, I am against any type of playoff expansion, even if it may help the Jays. After 20 years of not making the playoffs, I want the Jays to make it because they slayed the monsters (Boston/NY), and not because they got the second wild card and then won a one game "flip a damn coin" sudden death against a better team. It just waters down what I consider(ed) the only major sport left where making the playoffs is an accomplishment.

I understand the extra WC will ultimately be good for baseball fans who may get a playoff race out of this (i.e. Toronto), but not a big fan of the way it is being presented. The worst team in baseball can win a one game playoff against the best team in baseball. IMO, baseball should never have a one game playoff, unless there is a tiebreaker situation.

[Kaizen]

I would understand that viewpoint if the divisions were even close to even. They are not even close to being even at the moment. The central divisions are a joke. I do hate the one game playoff too but I hate that people talk like all divisions are equal. They are not. I am much more impressed by who comes in 2nd in the east or west then I am by the central division winners.

When does Houston move to the AL?

[SharoneWright]

I want the Jays to make it because they slayed the monsters (Boston/NY), and not because they got the second wild card and then won a one game "flip a damn coin" sudden death against a better team. It just waters down what I consider(ed) the only major sport left where making the playoffs is an accomplishment.
.
.
The worst team in baseball can win a one game playoff against the best team in baseball. IMO, baseball should never have a one game playoff, unless there is a tiebreaker situation.

So you want a 13-game series between the 8th and 1st seed,,,, or you don't believe 162 games can't sort out the contenders from the pretenders???

Or you think the form of the playoffs matters more than the worth of the teams who get promoted from a marketing point of view?

[Parataxis]

1-game playoffs are the definition of 'wildcard'.

I've actually changed my mind about 1 gamers completely since I heard about them, but I want it expanded. One thing I don't much like about larger playoffs is how much it negates coming in first overall, that includes now with just the one WC. So give me 7 playoff teams in each league, but 2-7 play 3 1 game WC playoffs and first is the only team with a bye.

I know that won't be everyone's cup of tea, it wouldn't have been mine a couple months ago either, but I've warmed up to the idea. That I dramatically prefer to making 4th and 5th the equivalent to 2nd tier playoff teams who don't rate a series. Embrace the 1 game playoff!

The thing is, adding a second wildcard actually makes coming in first MORE important, not less.

You come in first, you're in the playoffs - you get a wildcard, you need to play a 1 gamer to get in.

[SharoneWright]

1-game playoffs are the definition of 'wildcard'.

I've actually changed my mind about 1 gamers completely since I heard about them, but I want it expanded. One thing I don't much like about larger playoffs is how much it negates coming in first overall, that includes now with just the one WC. So give me 7 playoff teams in each league, but 2-7 play 3 1 game WC playoffs and first is the only team with a bye.

I know that won't be everyone's cup of tea, it wouldn't have been mine a couple months ago either, but I've warmed up to the idea. That I dramatically prefer to making 4th and 5th the equivalent to 2nd tier playoff teams who don't rate a series. Embrace the 1 game playoff!

The thing is, adding a second wildcard actually makes coming in first MORE important, not less.

You come in first, you're in the playoffs - you get a wildcard, you need to play a 1 gamer to get in.

Exactly. Give credit to the division winners. Embrace the 1 game playoff!

[There There]

The only good thing about expanded playoffs is it rewards the division winner. Other than that, I am against any type of playoff expansion, even if it may help the Jays. After 20 years of not making the playoffs, I want the Jays to make it because they slayed the monsters (Boston/NY), and not because they got the second wild card and then won a one game "flip a damn coin" sudden death against a better team. It just waters down what I consider(ed) the only major sport left where making the playoffs is an accomplishment.

I understand the extra WC will ultimately be good for baseball fans who may get a playoff race out of this (i.e. Toronto), but not a big fan of the way it is being presented. The worst team in baseball can win a one game playoff against the best team in baseball. IMO, baseball should never have a one game playoff, unless there is a tiebreaker situation.

It's a good thing that the worst team in baseball won't be playing in said playoff game.

God forbid we destroy the sanctity of a playoff system that can reward a team for barely playing .500 ball over 162 games, just because they happen to be the least worst of a sad sack of **** division

[Michael Bradley]

I want the Jays to make it because they slayed the monsters (Boston/NY), and not because they got the second wild card and then won a one game "flip a damn coin" sudden death against a better team. It just waters down what I consider(ed) the only major sport left where making the playoffs is an accomplishment.
.
.
The worst team in baseball can win a one game playoff against the best team in baseball. IMO, baseball should never have a one game playoff, unless there is a tiebreaker situation.

So you want a 13-game series between the 8th and 1st seed,,,, or you don't believe 162 games can't sort out the contenders from the pretenders???

Or you think the form of the playoffs matters more than the worth of the teams who get promoted from a marketing point of view?

My thoughts on the playoffs are simple: either go back to the two division format that existed prior to the Wild Card implementation (so the playoffs start with the LCS) or keep things the way they are. The playoffs should be very hard to get into. Don't water it down with more teams.

If the 2nd wild card had been implemented from 2002-onwards (last ten years) in the American League, then the first Wild Card team would have averaged almost FIVE more wins than the second Wild Card team (95.2 vs. 90.3). So while the second Wild Card team over that span did at least average 90 wins (i.e. a very good team), it was still five wins less than the team they would be facing in a one game playoff to determine who moves on. Is that fair? If the Jays won the 2012 Wild Card with 96 wins and then had to play the Rays who won 91 games in a 1-game playoff, how would you feel about that?

When I said the worst team in baseball can beat the best team in baseball in a one game series, I didn't mean that the 2nd wild card would reward bad teams. I said it to show that one game in baseball determines nothing. The Orioles can beat the Yankees in a one game series, so why should that determine who moves on to the playoffs when there could conceivably be an 8-win difference between the 1st and 2nd Wild Card teams (in 2009 there would have been an 8-win difference)?

[tecumseh18]

1-game playoffs are the definition of 'wildcard'.

One thing I don't much like about larger playoffs is how much it negates coming in first overall, that includes now with just the one WC. So give me 7 playoff teams in each league, but 2-7 play 3 1 game WC playoffs and first is the only team with a bye.

With a balanced schedule, that would make sense. Without one, then not. So do away with the divisions? I'm down with that.

If the 2nd wild card had been implemented from 2002-onwards (last ten years) in the American League, then the first Wild Card team would have averaged almost FIVE more wins than the second Wild Card team (95.2 vs. 90.3).

OK, but the team with more wins does get home field advantage and last bat. That's gotta be worth something.

As for your point about wanting to beat the Yanks and Bosox the old-fashioned way, the problem is that those guys have at least double the salary we do. The Rays are living off all its top draft picks from when they were tanking every year. We simply can't consistently compete with those guys from year to year. During the 162 game season, it's not a level playing field.

[Parataxis]

I want the Jays to make it because they slayed the monsters (Boston/NY), and not because they got the second wild card and then won a one game "flip a damn coin" sudden death against a better team. It just waters down what I consider(ed) the only major sport left where making the playoffs is an accomplishment.
.
.
The worst team in baseball can win a one game playoff against the best team in baseball. IMO, baseball should never have a one game playoff, unless there is a tiebreaker situation.

So you want a 13-game series between the 8th and 1st seed,,,, or you don't believe 162 games can't sort out the contenders from the pretenders???

Or you think the form of the playoffs matters more than the worth of the teams who get promoted from a marketing point of view?

My thoughts on the playoffs are simple: either go back to the two division format that existed prior to the Wild Card implementation (so the playoffs start with the LCS) or keep things the way they are. The playoffs should be very hard to get into. Don't water it down with more teams.

If the 2nd wild card had been implemented from 2002-onwards (last ten years) in the American League, then the first Wild Card team would have averaged almost FIVE more wins than the second Wild Card team (95.2 vs. 90.3). So while the second Wild Card team over that span did at least average 90 wins (i.e. a very good team), it was still five wins less than the team they would be facing in a one game playoff to determine who moves on. Is that fair? If the Jays won the 2012 Wild Card with 96 wins and then had to play the Rays who won 91 games in a 1-game playoff, how would you feel about that?

But that's the thing you seem to be forgetting (ignoring?) Adding the second wildcard makes getting into the real (ie multi-game series) playoffs HARDER, not easier.

Right now, finishing with the best record of the 2nd place finishers is enough to get you to the playoffs. With the second wild-card, this will no longer be so. All that being the best loser gets you is a chance to 'play-in' to the playoffs, against the second-best loser. So now, only three teams (the ones who won their division) are guaranteed extended post-season play.

And to your question : I'd be fine with that.

[There There]

If the 2nd wild card had been implemented from 2002-onwards (last ten years) in the American League, then the first Wild Card team would have averaged almost FIVE more wins than the second Wild Card team (95.2 vs. 90.3). So while the second Wild Card team over that span did at least average 90 wins (i.e. a very good team), it was still five wins less than the team they would be facing in a one game playoff to determine who moves on. Is that fair? If the Jays won the 2012 Wild Card with 96 wins and then had to play the Rays who won 91 games in a 1-game playoff, how would you feel about that?

And in that time, three teams have made the AL playoffs with 90 or less wins, simply by winning their pathetic division

It is even worst in the NL, where eight teams have made the playoffs in the past ten years with 90 or less wins, again, simply by winning their division.

I can find 12 teams over the past ten years which did not make the playoffs, yet had a better record than another team in their league which did make the playoffs ( again by virtue of being the least worst of the lot in their division )

You can argue whether a one game playoff is representative of the better team moving forward in that particular matchup, but it has nothing to do with the integrity of the playoff system. Divisional alignment broke the system, with regards to which teams deserve to be in the playoffs, and the divide was made even larger by going from two divisions per league to three.

Simply put, in most years, there are teams being shut out of the playoffs who deserve to be there. This additional wild card won't completely fix that, but it will reduce the number of deserving teams being shut out.

My preferred option would be to move away completely from divisional alignment, and have the top four teams in each league make the playoffs, however that is never going to happen. So if given the option of adding an additional wild card with the limitation of only being able to fit in a one game playoff, as opposed to keeping status quo, I would choose additional wild card each and every time.

[Myth111]

From Buster Olney:

• Major League Baseball and the players' association continue to unravel the final details needed to implement the 10-team playoff field this year. Because the baseball calendar is already in place for 2012 and there is very little time left for this extra round of playoffs, there will probably be something of a high-wire act to squeeze everything in given how it's structured. But personally, I think it'll be great, because the new system will reinforce the integrity of what it means to win a division, and because the winner-take-all games have been tremendous theater during the last five years. The other day in Lakeland, retired manager Tony La Russa mentioned that in the discussion of commissioner Bud Selig's advisory board, there is a general sense that the wild-card teams have been given a relatively easy road in October, without much of a built-in handicap. La Russa noted that his 2011 Cardinals were one example of this on their way to becoming World Series champions.