Lets talk OBP

[Kapono]

Jays were tied for 8th in the AL in terms of OBP last season with a .317 OBP. Red Sox were 1st with .349 and Yankees were 2nd with .343 OBPs.

I think OBP is very important and something we lack. Teams like the Red Sox and Yankees were so patient against our young starters last year that we had to move to the bullpen quickly in a lot of games. We need more batters on our team who can take walks.

We know Bautista has a great OBP due to the respect he gets. Escobar also has a career OBP of .366, Johnson has a career OBP of .343 which is pretty good.

After that it gets pretty sketchy. Lind doesn't take walks, EE had a decent improvement in terms of walks last year, Snider and Thames seem to be destined to be low OBP players due to being prone to strike outs and having holes in their swings.

Lawrie put up a .373 OBP last year, which was impressive, but do you guys think he profiles as a high OBP type of guy? Would be nice if he has another great OBP this year.

Thoughts?

[flatjacket1]

I would argue Lind serves a better purpose just standing there against lefties and taking every single pitch. No question that going deep in to counts hurts the other teams pitching.

It's also worth noting that Thames offseason plan was to lose muscle because he was too jacked to hit inside pitches (This isn't a joke, I'm actually being serious) and he claims he clogged up last years holes and the only real hole in Sniders swing was the fact he sunk down (which was fixed towards the end of the season also) so expect both to experience a much different year of baseball.

I think Lawrie is more of a slugger than anything and will maintain near league average walk rates (but obviously hit for power).

[Kapono]

I would argue Lind serves a better purpose just standing there against lefties and taking every single pitch. No question that going deep in to counts hurts the other teams pitching.

It's also worth noting that Thames offseason plan was to lose muscle because he was too jacked to hit inside pitches (This isn't a joke, I'm actually being serious) and he claims he clogged up last years holes and the only real hole in Sniders swing was the fact he sunk down (which was fixed towards the end of the season also) so expect both to experience a much different year of baseball.

I think Lawrie is more of a slugger than anything and will maintain near league average walk rates (but obviously hit for power).

Two things.

FIrst, Lind used that excuse for his bad 2010 season. He said he spent too much time working out on his chest in the offseason that year that his chest got too big and made it harder for him to hit inside pitches.

2nd, have you seen photos of Thames lately? Looks like he gained 30 pounds of muscle.

[flatjacket1]

Two things.

FIrst, Lind used that excuse for his bad 2010 season. He said he spent too much time working out on his chest in the offseason that year that his chest got too big and made it harder for him to hit inside pitches.

2nd, have you seen photos of Thames lately? Looks like he gained 30 pounds of muscle.

“At my biggest I was about 225 pounds, and about 3% body fat, and right now I’m about 205, with about 5-6% body fat,” Thames explained. “I guess people are kind of freaking out because last year all I did was, like, full yoga — that was it.”

Thames got into yoga after realizing that his muscle mass was leading to injuries. In 2008, the Blue Jays drafted Thames in the seventh round, 219th overall when his stock dropped dramatically after he suffered a quadriceps injury weeks before the MLB draft. Until then, Thames was projected to be drafted in the first or second round.

“They love it. Last year they were concerned because I showed up at spring training weighing about 220, just bulky with muscle mass. This year I showed up at 205 and they loved that I was a lot leaner. My chest was a lot smaller, my legs were a lot looser. Everything. They loved that.

“Like I said, I build muscle very easily. I can do pushups for about a week and look like I’ve been doing bodybuilding for years; that’s just the way my body is. Some guys can actually use a lot of weightlifting to put on mass and hit better, and play better, but for me it works the other way. I need to be leaner and looser so I don’t get hurt. I just do kettle bell stuff, a lot of explosive movements. I don’t do any curls, or bench presses, or any of that stuff.”

"One of the holes other pitchers exploited last year came on fastballs high and away, in part because his upper body was too built to handle them. During swings his right elbow would pop up and force a longer bat path, something that's been addressed with the increased flexibility he has through his back and chest," Davidi writes, referring to Thames' off-season yoga-and-weightlifting regimen that avoided building up his back and chest, specifically so he could make adjustments to his swing.

He dropped muscle and gained fat this offseason, and I have three independent sources that claim that. He came to camp with less muscle mass than last season.

[tecumseh18]

FIrst, Lind used that excuse for his bad 2010 season. He said he spent too much time working out on his chest in the offseason that year that his chest got too big and made it harder for him to hit inside pitches.

Lind was actually pretty good last season around the one-third mark. I particularly remember his performance when Jose was out for a week or so. But something (back injury?) happened afterward and he fell off a cliff.

[evilRyu]

Great thread and I do like the approach to take pitches, work the starter, and get to the pen quick. However, is that Murphy's mentality? Does he not like to utilize an approach where you identify a particular pitch and swing rigt away? I suppose you could do a hybrid of both but it'd take lots of discipline, something a young team like the jays need to show.

[Kapono]

Great thread and I do like the approach to take pitches, work the starter, and get to the pen quick. However, is that Murphy's mentality? Does he not like to utilize an approach where you identify a particular pitch and swing rigt away? I suppose you could do a hybrid of both but it'd take lots of discipline, something a young team like the jays need to show.

No its not.

[Dr. Nick]

Expect much more of the same for as long as D Murphy is our hitting coach.

[tecumseh18]

Expect much more of the same for as long as D Murphy is our hitting coach.

Yeah, we were doing so much better under Gibbons and his assistants.

Not!!!

I think you have to take every hitter as they are. For some inexplicable reason, Mr. Moneyball-lite Riccardi brought in a lot of batters who were more comfortable free swinging. And then thought he could use Gibbons & Co to teach the patient approach.

[Dr. Nick]

Expect much more of the same for as long as D Murphy is our hitting coach.

Yeah, we were doing so much better under Gibbons and his assistants.

Not!!!

I think you have to take every hitter as they are. For some inexplicable reason, Mr. Moneyball-lite Riccardi brought in a lot of batters who were more comfortable free swinging. And then thought he could use Gibbons & Co to teach the patient approach.

I'm not saying its a bad thing. I'm just saying that Murphy's philosophy is to go up there looking for your pitch and hit it. We've had good success with that approach.

Just to the OP's point, we're not an OBP type of offense.

[BigLeagueChew]

wow, Thames looks huge

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Just to the OP's point, we're not an OBP type of offense.

That's where the additions of Johnson and Rasmus could really help us. In 2010 they both had OBP (and wOBA) of over .360. Combined with Yunel (.369 OBP, .345 wOBA in 2011), that gives us three guys whose main roles will hopefully be just to get on base.