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That is if Lind has another **** year as expected. Doing this gets rid of Lind, and solves the OF log jam for another year (cause Gose will be ready for the start of 2013).

This allows us to had an OF of ThamesOrSnider/Gose/Rasmus in 2013 (barring no FA or Trade acquisition). Awaiting Jake Marsinick of course, who should take over the RF spot if everything goes right.

I agree. I think this is part of the reason we didn't go after Fielder or Pujols. I think it makes sense not just because Lind is terrible but also because Bautista isn't a capable defender in RF.

I would make the OF go Thames/Gose/Snider and drop Colby (regardless of how he does, if he does good we get a lot more back in a trade)

flatjacket1 wrote:I agree. I think this is part of the reason we didn't go after Fielder or Pujols. I think it makes sense not just because Lind is terrible but also because Bautista isn't a capable defender in RF.

I would make the OF go Thames/Gose/Snider and drop Colby (regardless of how he does, if he does good we get a lot more back in a trade)

Sorry but I had to log in to reply to this. Bautista is not a capable RF? He has one of the best arms out there and his range is a little above average.

righteous015 wrote:

flatjacket1 wrote:I agree. I think this is part of the reason we didn't go after Fielder or Pujols. I think it makes sense not just because Lind is terrible but also because Bautista isn't a capable defender in RF.

I would make the OF go Thames/Gose/Snider and drop Colby (regardless of how he does, if he does good we get a lot more back in a trade)

Sorry but I had to log in to reply to this. Bautista is not a capable RF? He has one of the best arms out there and his range is a little above average.

Nope. Good arm, but overall a below average defender. A lot of this will depend on how Gose, Thames, Rasmus and Snider fare in 2012, but I'm definitely hoping for Bautista to move to first in 2013. If not 2013, then definitely 2014.

flatjacket1 wrote:I agree. I think this is part of the reason we didn't go after Fielder or Pujols. I think it makes sense not just because Lind is terrible but also because Bautista isn't a capable defender in RF.

I would make the OF go Thames/Gose/Snider and drop Colby (regardless of how he does, if he does good we get a lot more back in a trade)

Makes no sense considering Colby has the longest track record out of all of them. Let the season play out and then revisit with more information on all

flatjacket1 wrote:I agree. I think this is part of the reason we didn't go after Fielder or Pujols. I think it makes sense not just because Lind is terrible but also because Bautista isn't a capable defender in RF.

I would make the OF go Thames/Gose/Snider and drop Colby (regardless of how he does, if he does good we get a lot more back in a trade)

what is this, the Pittsburgh Pirates team building philosophy? Trade away good players to accomdate terrible ones? Anthony Gose if brought up today would be among the worst hitter in baseball, a lot has to change for him to be a viable big leaguer and the the odds of that happening are slim, trading established players to accommodate him is a joke.

Avenger wrote:

flatjacket1 wrote:I agree. I think this is part of the reason we didn't go after Fielder or Pujols. I think it makes sense not just because Lind is terrible but also because Bautista isn't a capable defender in RF.

I would make the OF go Thames/Gose/Snider and drop Colby (regardless of how he does, if he does good we get a lot more back in a trade)

what is this, the Pittsburgh Pirates team building philosophy? Trade away good players to accomdate terrible ones? Anthony Gose if brought up today would be among the worst hitter in baseball, a lot has to change for him to be a viable big leaguer and the the odds of that happening are slim, trading established players to accommodate him is a joke.

So a player who has a .350 OBP who plays CF while being told to drive the ball in all counts can't hit? 16 HR's in the EL is like equivalent to what he would hit in the MLB mainly due to park factors.

Gose stole 70 bases last season in 137 games. Gose is reported to have GG caliber defense. He also has a great arm. He is a true 5 tool player and has a higher ceiling than Rasmus.

If you look at Rasmus spring numbers against inferior competition do you really project him to become the All-Star you seem to think he is by the time the season rolls around?

righteous015 wrote:

flatjacket1 wrote:I agree. I think this is part of the reason we didn't go after Fielder or Pujols. I think it makes sense not just because Lind is terrible but also because Bautista isn't a capable defender in RF.

I would make the OF go Thames/Gose/Snider and drop Colby (regardless of how he does, if he does good we get a lot more back in a trade)

Sorry but I had to log in to reply to this. Bautista is not a capable RF? He has one of the best arms out there and his range is a little above average.

I hope this was meant to be green font. Last year he lost us 10 runs or around 1 win by his fielding in UZR/150 last season. He isn't quite as bad as Thames but if you plugged Snider into RF hes about 1.5 WAR better than him in fielding alone (15 runs).

To put that in perspective, a Fielder over Lind/EE platoon is about 20 runs. So 10 runs is a lot.

This is the first time I've heard Bautista as incapable in RF. He's also made it known he prefers the outfield so what's the point of making our best player unhappy again? Just find another first baseman or someone that hits better than Lind willing to move to 1st base.

BigLeagueChew wrote:This is the first time I've heard Bautista as incapable in RF. He's also made it known he prefers the outfield so what's the point of making our best player unhappy again? Just find another first baseman or someone that hits better than Lind willing to move to 1st base.

If we tell him he will be counterproductive to winnings then he will surely understand.

flatjacket1 wrote:

BigLeagueChew wrote:This is the first time I've heard Bautista as incapable in RF. He's also made it known he prefers the outfield so what's the point of making our best player unhappy again? Just find another first baseman or someone that hits better than Lind willing to move to 1st base.

If we tell him he will be counterproductive to winnings then he will surely understand.

There's also a better chance of him being productive into his late 30's if he plays first as opposed to the outfield (less health concerns, unless you're Adam Lind), which could matter to him if he wants another multiyear contract.

I think I'd rather go after a DH, or first baseman. Imo it would be easier to add offenive power that way (and getting a cleanup guy to protect Bautista is a priority imo), and I really don't think the defensive improvment would be enough to make up for the difference in offense.

LF Rasmus, CF Gose, RF Marisnick

Hech and Escobar up the middle. I think I could pitch with that D.

It does not matter whether he's a bad fielder or not, pissing off your superstar leader is much worse than having a bad fielder in RIGHT FIELD. Seriously, who cares.

Avp115 wrote:It does not matter whether he's a bad fielder or not, pissing off your superstar leader is much worse than having a bad fielder in RIGHT FIELD. Seriously, who cares.

If it saves us ten runs in a season and adds another 2-4 years to Bautista's career then I care. As should most Jays fans. The Marlins hurt their superstar's feelings by signing another shortstop and asking him to move to third. He got over it.

righteous015 wrote:

flatjacket1 wrote:I agree. I think this is part of the reason we didn't go after Fielder or Pujols. I think it makes sense not just because Lind is terrible but also because Bautista isn't a capable defender in RF.

I would make the OF go Thames/Gose/Snider and drop Colby (regardless of how he does, if he does good we get a lot more back in a trade)

Sorry but I had to log in to reply to this. Bautista is not a capable RF? He has one of the best arms out there and his range is a little above average.

Players that are great hitters are always over-rated as fielders. Bautista is not good. He has a good arm which is important but overall he's below average. Probably would have been better to leave Lawrie at 2B and Bautista at 3B, but it's kinda hard to rewind and do that at this point. I can't see Bautista being happy moving to 1B. Besides, it's cheaper to get a good hitting 1B compared to RF.

What a moronic thing to say. That's the only logical move is it? Lets take our RF with a plus glove and cannon arm and hope he can learn to play first..... WHY?

Holy Lord.

his range is not good in RF, but putting bautista on first takes away his cannon arm.

A-Mac78 wrote:What a moronic thing to say. That's the only logical move is it? Lets take our RF with a plus glove and cannon arm and hope he can learn to play first..... WHY?

Holy Lord.

1) Bautista has played first base in the majors before, and has been fine. First base is also the easiest position to play.
2) Do your homework. Bautista is a below average defender.
3) We have great outfield prospects. We don't have any 1B prospects.

Barring a major trade, and it does depend a lot on how Thames, Snider, Rasmus, Gose and Marisnick do, but as of now it is by far the best option for the Blue Jays.

A-Mac78 wrote:What a moronic thing to say. That's the only logical move is it? Lets take our RF with a plus glove and cannon arm and hope he can learn to play first..... WHY?

Holy Lord.

Lol I bet your one of those people who go "I don't care what stats say I actually WATCH the games and hes great in RF"

He is half as bad as Thames was last year if that makes anybody feel better, but first year players take time to adjust to a new stadium etc. (Even Snider, one of our best OF defenders was -20 runs/150 games in his first season)

I would think moving Bautista is 1B isn't the only option, but if you want an optimal defense with the lineup you have he makes much more sense to play 1B (as he has in the past). With the Jays at 1B he has been -1 UZR/150 which is only -1 run which is actually 0.7 runs better than Adam Lind at 1B (warning, small sample size).

It would also protect him from injuries. Sure it would waste his arm but if it means preserving his productive years with us I say go for it.

Feel free to disagree but please stop saying things such as "He is a plus defender" because that's the one thing that nobody can back up with numbers because all of them say hes bad.

I like the "It will tick him off" argument though, I agree that we might ask him to move and he says no but what is the harm is asking? I never thought of this before posting on the thread.