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OT: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:17 pm
by Avenger
Miami Marlins manager Ozzie Guillen was suspended for five games Tuesday because of his comments about Fidel Castro, and he again apologized and said he'll do whatever he can to repair relations with Cuban-Americans angered by the remarks.
The suspension by the team will be without pay and takes effect immediately. It was announced shortly before Guillen held a news conference to explain what he said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ ... s-16107820I'm no fan of Ozzie but its so disgusting to see the National Baseball media and the local press rail road Ozzie for a completely harmless statement. If you look at what he said about Castro in this instances and at other times in Chicago he was in no way supporting Castro's alleged crimes. He was just making a comment about Castro's ability to survive for that long despite so many people looking to kill you.
and what's even more disturbing is what's okay in Major League Baseball
- Players who compare their black teammates to savages and throwing banana chips at them
- Managers and players racking up DUI's
- Homophobic slurs
- Owners with a documented history of racism like the new owners of the Astros Jim Crane who at one point told security at told security at his office buildings to not allow women and minorities in order to stop them from submitting job applications?
and what's not okay?
- mentioning Castro in a sentence in what was ultimately not a political statement
- players using safe and scientifically proven substances to recover from injuries
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:40 pm
by Parataxis
Well, so much for freedom of speech and political opinion.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:58 pm
by Hamyltowne
Parataxis wrote:Well, so much for freedom of speech and political opinion.
Think before you write. Or, at least, read before you write.
Read Ken Rosenthal's column, for example:
Ken Rosenthal wrote:Yes, we live in a free country, but the Constitution protects free speech only from restriction by the state and federal governments. The Marlins, a private entity, presumably can impose the penalty of their choice on Guillen, who is a management employee, not part of the players union.
His comments were unpardonable to many a Miami resident. The chief of everything--politics, police, fire, hospitals--in Miami is Cuban. They are a sensitive bunch. The Marlins did the right thing. It's the only way to placate a group that makes up the skeletal structure of the city in which they play.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:05 pm
by Hamyltowne
Avenger wrote:and what's even more disturbing is what's okay in Major League Baseball
- Managers and players racking up DUI's
- Homophobic slurs
What's wrong with homophobic slurs?
Avenger wrote:and what's not okay?
- mentioning Castro in a sentence in what was ultimately not a political statement
Avenger, mentioning Castro in any sentence is a political statement
in Miami.
It was foolhardy.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:10 pm
by Hamyltowne
I was going to start a thread on this. I totally agree with the decision, for reasons that are both personal and abstract. Teams have principles; cities have principles; the two must be simpatico.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:19 pm
by torontoaces04
Hamyltowne wrote:Avenger wrote:and what's even more disturbing is what's okay in Major League Baseball
- Managers and players racking up DUI's
- Homophobic slurs
What's wrong with homophobic slurs?Avenger wrote:and what's not okay?
- mentioning Castro in a sentence in what was ultimately not a political statement
Avenger, mentioning Castro in any sentence is a political statement
in Miami.
It was foolhardy.
You tell people to think (or read) before they speak, then you go and say a ridiculously outlandish statement like this.
Listen to your own advice, comments like this make you seem foolish.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:25 pm
by illy
regardless if its respect for surviving all those years. guillien fcked himself by mentioning him in the first place. miami has a huge cuban population, and not suspending him, miami would have lost a lot of fans and ticket sales especially after making over this team. if this was made while he was in chicago then it wouldnt have been this way.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:27 pm
by Avenger
Hamyltowne wrote:His comments were unpardonable to many a Miami resident. The chief of everything--politics, police, fire, hospitals--in Miami is Cuban. They are a sensitive bunch. The Marlins did the right thing.
That should only be the case if you're a complete idiot. Why is it so hard to understand? Read what he actually said in the radio interview and read what he said about the same topic during his time in Chicago. Ozzie clearly doesn't support Castro's actions, he calls him a "[expletive]" (i'm guessing this is f ( )cker) in that radio interview and says " i don't agree with his philosophy" in another interview he did in Chicago about the same topic.
The only people who did anything wrong are those idiots in Miami, Ozzie shouldn't take the blame because their reading comprehension is at a 2nd grade level. If they're looking to be bitter at someone, they should try a mirror. They've been holding American foreign policy towards Cuba hostage for decades and that has done more to enpower Castro than anything else but i guess that's a discussion for a different venue.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:28 pm
by Avenger
Hamyltowne wrote:What's wrong with homophobic slurs?
I don't understand
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:31 pm
by Raps in 4
It was done to appease the sensitive fanbase. Nothing more.
I don't agree with the suspension because the comment was in no way hateful, and didn't even express a political opinion. However, ownership needs to fill the stands.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:33 pm
by torontoaces04
Avenger wrote:Hamyltowne wrote:What's wrong with homophobic slurs?
I don't understand
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:39 pm
by satyr9
Should an employee get suspended for having an opinion that isn't in line with their customer's belief system? Absolutely not.
Should an employee get suspended for making public statements about the single-most sensitive political topic among one of the most important demographic groups in their customer base without, at least, discussing them with management first? I don't care, but I promise you the company does and I can think of very little reason why they should be looked down upon for doing so.
Having thoughts about Castro is not the reason Ozzie got suspended. Endangering the Marlins relationship with the Cuban community because he's such a gigantic enormous loudmouth moron that he couldn't recognize that saying nice things about Castro, no matter if he nuances it or not, would set off just about the worst PR nightmare the Marlins could fathom is worthy of suspension and, if he were any less important to the Marlins re-branding, potentially a firing offense. He's there to run the ballclub and be the point man for the media and it's hard to say which job is more important anymore and he's just so ridiculously awful at that part of his job, it's laughable he has one. I don't have any sympathy for the Marlins either, 'cause they're the idiots that hired a guy who'd already proven he was going to do pretty much the worst thing he could from a PR perspective as often as humanly possible.
He just thinks he's so amazing that every opinion he has is worth saying without reflection or restraint (and no I'm not going to re-read this after I type it to make sure it's worth anyone's time
). A 12 year-old would figure out not to talk about Castro in a media interview when his job is to be a goddamn baseball manager. It serves zero purpose, is not relevant to any potential discussion, and can only cause negative reactions among some of your fanbase.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:42 pm
by Hamyltowne
Avenger wrote:Hamyltowne wrote:His comments were unpardonable to many a Miami resident. The chief of everything--politics, police, fire, hospitals--in Miami is Cuban. They are a sensitive bunch. The Marlins did the right thing.
That should only be the case if you're a complete idiot. Why is it so hard to understand? Read what he actually said in the radio interview and read what he said about the same topic during his time in Chicago. Ozzie clearly doesn't support Castro's actions, he calls him a "[expletive]" (i'm guessing this is f ( )cker) in that radio interview and says " i don't agree with his philosophy" in another interview he did in Chicago about the same topic.
The only people who did anything wrong are those idiots in Miami, Ozzie shouldn't take the blame because their reading comprehension is at a 2nd grade level. If they're looking to be bitter at someone, they should try a mirror. They've been holding American foreign policy towards Cuba hostage for decades and that has done more to enpower Castro than anything else but i guess that's a discussion for a different venue.
I'm not sure if you're calling me a complete idiot or the folks in Miami. Either way, you seem rather excited.
You object to the synthetic indignation yet proceed to get excited over this in much the same way as the Cubans (but without the rhythm and spice).
Take it easy.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:44 pm
by Hamyltowne
torontoaces04 wrote:Hamyltowne wrote:What's wrong with homophobic slurs?
You tell people to think (or read) before they speak, then you go and say a ridiculously outlandish statement like this.
Listen to your own advice, comments like this make you seem foolish.
Have you found your sense of humour yet?
Foolish, perhaps, but not foolhardy. To have been foolhardy would have required a different setting. Ozzie manages a baseball team set in a city dominated by embittered refugees from Cuba. If my comment were made in a bathhouse with a gay pride parade floating out on the street, then it would have been foolhardy. But instead it was made in post on a forum for Blue Jays fans. See how context works? Interesting, isn't it?
I've never known a sports fan to quibble over homophobic slurs.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:54 pm
by Hamyltowne
satyr9 wrote:Should an employee get suspended for making public statements about the single-most sensitive political topic among one of the most important demographic groups in their customer base without, at least, discussing them with management first? I don't care, but I promise you the company does and I can think of very little reason why they should be looked down upon for doing so.
Having thoughts about Castro is not the reason Ozzie got suspended. Endangering the Marlins relationship with the Cuban community because he's such a gigantic enormous loudmouth moron that he couldn't recognize that saying nice things about Castro, no matter if he nuances it or not, would set off just about the worst PR nightmare the Marlins could fathom is worthy of suspension and, if he were any less important to the Marlins re-branding, potentially a firing offense.
Absolutely agree. I'm glad you wrote it with such brass. I couldn't be bothered earlier but then became tempted and had written long piece only to jettison it entirely when I read your post.
satyr9 wrote:A 12 year-old would figure out not to talk about Castro in a media interview when his job is to be a goddamn baseball manager. It serves zero purpose, is not relevant to any potential discussion, and can only cause negative reactions among some of your fanbase.
Well said.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:37 pm
by Randle McMurphy
I'm not exactly sure what a five game suspension is supposed to accomplish. The people who are pissed at Ozzie for his rather innocuous comment are still going to be pissed when the suspension is over. If the goal here is truly appeasing their fanbase, they might as well have just fired him.
Re: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:44 pm
by Modern_epic
Essentially for the most part no one is disagreeing here for the most part. That you think you are is an is/aught problem. The reality is what the people backing up the team are saying. You work in in a public position in Miami, you don't say even vaguely not-hateful sounding things about Castro. But that that is the reality reality aught to not be the case is also quite clear.
Had the league suspended him, I would be up in arms. That the team did it is nut on the face, but they don't really have a choice.
I've never known a sports fan to quibble over homophobic slurs.
The "for the most part" above ends here. I've known quite a few. But even if that were not the case, it's still something that a league or teams should do something about, both from a marketing and ethical position.
Re: OT: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:55 pm
by Skin Blues
They knew what they were getting when they signed him.
Re: OT: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:16 pm
by SharoneWright
Community relations are essential to any MLB team.
They employ him. They can suspend him.
If he managed in Seattle and said it, it would be a non-issue. But its not like we ever thought Ozzie had any sort of EQ anyway....
Re: OT: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:29 pm
by dballislife
i would absolutely hate a manager like ozzie, the guy just tries too hard and says too much unnecessary things, dude just manage ur team and stop with the antics