Attendance in the AL East

Post #1 » by **LittleOzzy** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:46 am

@LottOnBaseball

Every AL East team except Toronto is enjoying higher average home attendance this year. (from @baseballprospectus)

TV numbers are up, why isn't the attendance? Is it simply because it's better to watch a game on TV at this point unless it's a nice summer game with the dome open?

Santoki · Post #2 » by **Santoki** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:51 am

To be fair, there's only been one weekend homestand and it was against the Orioles.

whysoserious · Post #3 » by **whysoserious** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:04 am

Fans in this city have a 'show me attitude'. We've seen plenty of hot starts or semi-hot starts. People's money is valuable and everything is expensive. They will spend when they feel they have a winner and feel entertained.

BTW, slightly off-topic but was listening to the McCowan show and they were talking about baseball and the fact that tickets are so expensive. How baseball use to be the every-man sport because there were 162 games and seats were cheap. Not anymore. Season seats are no longer about a family buying tickets and going to see their favourite team anymore. Because it's so expensive they said people that own season tix, usually attend about 7 of the 41 games (used Leafs as an example). I think this applies to most sports now.

Someone was saying how that when MLSE prices out their tickets, they take the ACC, look at the population in a 100 km or mile (can't remember) radius) and then price their tickets for everyone to attend the game once per season.

Baseball still has some cheap seats but even lower bowl, a game for a family of four is gonna cost you a couple of hundred bucks and people will only spend where they see value.

kavan · Post #4 » by **kavan** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:31 am

Leafs have about 18-19k die hard fans raptors have about 14-15k die hard fans and jays manage to get about 15k die hard fans on average a game. I think winning will start to fill the seats out, probably did not help that we got beat up by the Tampa and Baltimore on our home stands for the most part. I have already been to two games this year will be going to a few more this year but thats if they keep things interesting!

Chevy Chase · Post #5 » by **Chevy Chase** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:38 am

We discussed the all summer. A better bulpen isn't enough to "sell" this team to the fans when others went out and spent more on their ball clubs. Good or Bad baseball decisions aside, by not signing any sexy free agents or making any serious trades AA did not excite the fans about this ball club.

I love his ability to detach emotion from his decision making, and his ability to find loopholes to exploite, but he could learn a thing or two from BC about selling. Especially this year with the leafs and Raptors being an extra level of crappy, he had an oportunity to really focus the city on the Blue Jays.

Now if the team is still in the wildcard race come June, interest will start to pick up. In contention for a playoff spot in late july and look out. This city is so starved for some sports playoffs action, the Marlees had to turn people away from the arena last game.

Reignman · Post #6 » by **Reignman** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:43 pm

The weather has been absolutely **** and I'm sure people are still in wait-and-see mode. If this team keeps up this pace and the weather turns, expect attendance to jump.

satyr9 · Post #7 » by **satyr9** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:39 pm

Well to me the early attendance looks up significantly, not just the 2k/game on the entire 2011 total. There are at least 4 categories of home games (and more if you consider the gigantic impact on attendance of NY and BOS): weeknight, midweek day, friday night, sat/sun day.

Weeknight games are close to half the total and have the lowest average attendance (a touch over 17k for all of 2011) and usually start out weak and trend steadily up until Sept. Last year weak weeknight games were about 11k to start and end the year and this year the bottom, so far (and obviously no conclusions yet), has been 15k. If that holds up and they can continually trend up throughout the summer, it'll be an absolutely massive increase. I don't expect it to be that huge, but if the club breaks 2m this year we may finally be seeing the start of some serious positive trends for the the Jays.

Secueritae · Post #8 » by **Secueritae** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:49 pm

whysoserious wrote:Fans in this city have a 'show me attitude'. We've seen plenty of hot starts or semi-hot starts. People's money is valuable and everything is expensive. They will spend when they feel they have a winner and feel entertained.

Definitely this.
I swear every year we're near the top for the first month or two, then we end up losing series' 2-1 which stacks up.

I also think many casual fans are disappointed that we didn't put serious effort into getting Prince or Darvish, and are just waiting to see if this team assembled can start turn it around, or lead to another disappointing 4th or 5th place finish.

Raptor_Guy · Post #9 » by **Raptor_Guy** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:18 pm

Attendance has been higher than it usually is in April. And the only reason other teams has "risen" is because the small sample size. The Jays have played 3 home series with only one of them being on a weekend, and the weather's been crappy. If a team like the Orioles or Rays has played 2 series, with one being a weekend and the other being the opener, they're going to have a higher average attendance at this point because it's not being weighed down.

J-Roc · Post #10 » by **J-Roc** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:01 am

I personally enjoy watching more on tv. I can only figure the dome will be more interesting if the team is winning and the games mean something. It's just been so long since a game meant anything, it's hard to imagine it.

Hamyltowne · Post #11 » by **Hamyltowne** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:02 am

whysoserious wrote:Fans in this city have a 'show me attitude'. We've seen plenty of hot starts or semi-hot starts. People's money is valuable and everything is expensive. They will spend when they feel they have a winner and feel entertained.

BTW, slightly off-topic but was listening to the McCowan show and they were talking about baseball and the fact that tickets are so expensive. How baseball use to be the every-man sport because there were 162 games and seats were cheap. Not anymore. Season seats are no longer about a family buying tickets and going to see their favourite team anymore. Because it's so expensive they said people that own season tix, usually attend about 7 of the 41 games (used Leafs as an example). I think this applies to most sports now.

Someone was saying how that when MLSE prices out their tickets, they take the ACC, look at the population in a 100 km or mile (can't remember) radius) and then price their tickets for everyone to attend the game once per season.

Baseball still has some cheap seats but even lower bowl, a game for a family of four is gonna cost you a couple of hundred bucks and people will only spend where they see value.

Right, but the market sets the ticket price(s). It's a happy medium between what the fans can afford to pay, and what the Jays can afford to sell them at. It's a business.

J-Roc · Post #12 » by **J-Roc** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:09 am

You can't blame Rogers for setting ticket prices where they do, it's their call. If they sold for a cheaper price, the place might fill up, but Rogers is afraid that when the Jays start winning, they won't be making as much as they can.

Or their market research tells them that if they sold tickets for less, more people wouldn't show up anyway. That could very well be true in Toronto.

whysoserious · Post #13 » by **whysoserious** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:50 pm

Hamyltowne wrote:Right, but the market sets the ticket price(s). It's a happy medium between what the fans can afford to pay, and what the Jays can afford to sell them at. It's a business.

Fair enough, market forces will drive the prices, but then Rogers can't sit their and complain that our arena is half empty and their product has not been up to par to draw fans in. And take the position that we'll spend money when the fans start coming.

Clearly, the fans don't see the value in the product and the prices to go down.

Here's a look at just seat prices:

Section Premium Games Regular Games
In The Action $210.00 $210.00
Premium Dugout $73.00 $62.00
HSBC Club VIP $75.00 $75.00
Field Level Infield $71.00 $60.00
200 Level Infield $71.00 $60.00
Field Level Bases $52.00 $44.00
200 Level Bases $52.00 $44.00
100 Level Outfield $36.00 $24.00
200 Level Outfield $30.00 $22.00
500 Level $14.00 $11.00

I don’t know how many seats are in each section roughly but I’m assuming that there are more seats available at the lower end of the spectrum than high. Would it be safe to guess the average seat price is about 40 bucks? (Sorry, didn’t have time to research the seats and do the math)

If it’s full, you can generate probably around 2 million dollars per game in ticket sales but it hasn’t been that way consistently for 18 years. So why stick with league average price, why not bring the price down to get more people in the doors. Obviously the on court product is very important to drawing fans. At the same time, people are spending less on entertainment and are making decision on where to spend that money best for a family. Sports slowly is losing this ground and the home entertainment experience has vastly improved to the point that some people almost get a better experience at home than at the game.

Drake_02 · Post #14 » by **Drake_02** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:49 pm

Really, I haven't gone to a game yet because it take me 45 minutes to get to Toronto, and then you have to pay for parking and that's like 20 bucks, and really, it's not worth it if the jays lose. So, I want to see them win on a consistent basis before I head to the ball park.

Brinbe · Post #15 » by **Brinbe** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:23 am

I've already been to three games, so I've done my part! But seriously, I think there's been a subtle improvement so far... And if we come back from this away stretch in okay shape, attendance should be there. Especially as the weather gets better.

Hamyltowne · Post #16 » by **Hamyltowne** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:33 am

Drake_02 wrote:Really, I haven't gone to a game yet because it take me 45 minutes to get to Toronto, and then you have to pay for parking and that's like 20 bucks, and really, it's not worth it if the jays lose. So, I want to see them win on a consistent basis before I head to the ball park.

Park at Yorkdale Mall and then take the train down to Union station. Or St. Andrew station, if you want to avoid the crowd--skywalk is closed for construction on the Aquarium.

Hamyltowne · Post #17 » by **Hamyltowne** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:34 am

Drake_02 wrote:... I want to see them win on a consistent basis before I head to the ball park.

What in God's name...

Baseball is a pleasure, win or lose.

whysoserious · Post #18 » by **whysoserious** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:52 am

Hamyltowne wrote:
Drake_02 wrote:... I want to see them win on a consistent basis before I head to the ball park.

What in God's name...

Baseball is a pleasure, win or lose.

Not everyone is the same type of fan, can't criticize someone with a wait and see attitude.

Attonitus · Post #19 » by **Attonitus** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:26 am

Baseball is still the cheapest option of all sports and IMO the best value. I got a fan pass and it's an incredible deal.

If you live in TO take TTC if you live outside of the city park your car at a GO stop and save yourself some money and hassle.

For families you can buy 4 tickets for less than $50 and on saturdays run the bases after the game as well as the other junior jays festivities.

I don't see how this is overpriced when people will happily shell out a few hundred to watch the Leafs get destroyed.

Hamyltowne · Post #20 » by **Hamyltowne** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:31 am

whysoserious wrote:
Hamyltowne wrote:
Drake_02 wrote:... I want to see them win on a consistent basis before I head to the ball park.

What in God's name...

Baseball is a pleasure, win or lose.

Not everyone is the same type of fan, can't criticize someone with a wait and see attitude.

Even when that fair-weather attitude is keeping our attendance down, sapping enthusiasm, and costing us additional revenue that could go toward the payroll?

Obviously, he alone is not responsible for all that, but, as a lot, the fair-weather fans have some nerve to demand a winner when they don't purchase much.

As for myself... take me out to the ballgame, take me out the crowd...

I've been to a couple of games already, sneaking in peanuts and cracker jack each and every time. This is a culture as much as it is a sport.

We shouldn't sanction the shut-ins and hope they turn out when we start winning. Support the team.