Would you trade Travis d'Arnaud for R.A. Dickey?

Mad-Eye Moody · Post #1 » by **Mad-Eye Moody** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:32 pm

I know there's already a Dickey thread. But the discussion there got me curious about where the board stands in this debate.

So would you trade a package featuring TDA for Dickey? I personally wouldn't (I do like Dickey), but it seems as though the majority would. So let's see what the poll says...

Lets assume we get Dickey for the next 3 years.

Ado05 · Post #2 » by **Ado05** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:37 pm

To me, TDA's ceiling is way higher, and would have a bigger impact on the team than Dickey's in the three years Dickey would be here.

Plus, if we keep TDA, we would still have a strong rotation and we could get something (probably not much, imo) for JPA. And TDA would be cheaper, younger, and have way more years of control. And it would most likely be better for the future of the Jays to have him.

Although, getting Dickey makes us a WS contender just like that. Its a tough one, but i'd say no to it.

beckham23 · Post #3 » by **beckham23** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:40 pm

Adrian_05 wrote:Nope. To me, TDA's ceiling is way higher, and would have a bigger impact on the team than Dickey's in the three years Dickey would be here.

+1

number15 · Post #4 » by **number15** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:40 pm

No i wouldnt......

Trading D'Arnaud would be similar to the Brewers trading their #1 prospect, Brett Lawrie for Shaun Marcum. Difference was Marcum was way younger while Dickey is way more effective. Give alittle, take alittle, but basically would be the same deal. As the Brewers were going all in, just like JAYS are going all in for 2013...... that didnt turn out too great for Milwaukee, while the JAYS have a blue chip youngster in Lawrie.

number15 · Post #5 » by **number15** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:44 pm

Mets need catcher and outfield prospects... JAYS have a surplus. I dont think Gose is gonna be as good as he looks but he is regarded as a top propects around the league. AA should take advantage before his value dies down after he loses the prospect logo.

Arencibia + Gose for Dickey (agrees to sign)

fair deal..... but AA will likely not sacrifice more prospects after doing the Miami deal. too bad.

brwnman · Post #6 » by **brwnman** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 10:08 pm

Nope. I wouldn't trade for Dickey. Not for that asking price.

I wouldn't trade him for JPA + Gose or either of them individually. I understand the need for a starter, but I would much rather have had Haren for the contract he signed, or just simply sign a starter like Edwin Jackson for 2-3 years.

I don't understand the fascination with Dickey. I don't want to say it's a fluke of a season, but he won't be replicating anything close to it at the Rogers Center.

Also, if we're trading JPA or Gose or both of them, I'd want a pitcher that has some control. Think Skaggs/Bauer. Now it doesn't have to be specifically those pitchers (and it wont be, cause D'Backs aren't a good match for us, anymore). But I would want a young, controllable arm for them. No point in trading JPA/Gose/TDA for rental pitchers. You can just as easily sign a pitcher or two from FA to provide depth.

I wouldn't trade TDA at all unless it's for an equally impressive prospect.

baulderdash77 · Post #7 » by **baulderdash77** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 10:13 pm

It's really a tough call and it depends on the parameters. What you're really banking on is the difference between TDA and JPA + Dickey when it comes down to it. If you could extend Dickey for 2 seasons and get 3 total years from him it's a really tough problem. I think as a group of fans we overrate years of control and the potential of prospects.

What do you really think that TDA's going to average? I think he could be a 3 WAR guy for the 6 years that we'd have him under control. If you're thinking he's going to be more than that; you're really into some serious speculative guesses on a guy that can't stay healthy. This is really pretty optimistic. That's 18 WAR.

I think JP is going to be a 2 WAR guy for the next 4 years. For Dickey let's say he puts up 4 WAR for next season, 3 the next and 2 the next. I think that's a fair guess. So in total you're getting 17 WAR by this path.

Framed that way, I think you make the deal honestly. We're in a position with Dickey to win it all potentially and for that risk I think it's worth it. I don't complain about trading Jeff Kent to make our World Series run and this could be our chance.

Virgil_Hiltz · Post #8 » by **Virgil_Hiltz** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 10:21 pm

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

D.A. Dickey has had 1 good season out of 10, 2 mediocre winning seasons out of ten seasons.
He has zero track record to prove that last year wasn't a fluke when he was in his late 30's.
I doubt he'll come close to his glory season again!

number15 · Post #9 » by **number15** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 10:24 pm

D'Arnaud is too good to lose for an old guy like Dickey.... i saw offer em, Arencibia and Gose. Take it or leave it.

if AA wants an ace that bad, just ask Tampa for Shields..... Arencibia + Gose will do it.

they are looking to deal him and they currently have Jose Molina as their starting catcher.... Gose is like a young Crawford for those who are still high on him, (not me).

baulderdash77 · Post #10 » by **baulderdash77** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 10:26 pm

^ Would you want Joe Madden to get onto Gose and have to deal with him for 6 years? I wouldn't.

SCF99 · Post #11 » by **SCF99** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 10:29 pm

Not a chance in he(double baseball bats).

Skin Blues · Post #12 » by **Skin Blues** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 10:59 pm

brwnman wrote:I don't understand the fascination with Dickey. I don't want to say it's a fluke of a season, but he won't be replicating anything close to it at the Rogers Center.

Converted to a knucle ball pitcher and proceeded to put up 3 years of elite stats (sub 3 ERA over 600+ innings) topped off with a Cy Young Award. That's the fascination. Why would he not be successful in the Rogers Centre? Other than the usual park effects that every pitcher is affected by.

Looking back on how we stole Lawrie from the Brewers it does make me think twice, but Lawrie is more of the exception than the rule as far as prospects go, and Dickey is a hell of a lot better than Marcum.

Tyrone Slothrop · Post #13 » by **Tyrone Slothrop** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:06 pm

Regardless of whether or not TDA ever amounts to anything in the pros, as a top 10 (top 5 to some) prospect in baseball he has a tremendous amount of trade value right now. If you're going to make him the centre piece of a deal, you could get a younger, less risky pitcher.

I don't see AA going much beyond JPA and one of Gose/Rasmus, with maybe a lower rated prospect or two thrown in there. The Mets are going to hold out for more, but if they don't get what they're looking for they could very well take that deal.

Tyrone Slothrop · Post #14 » by **Tyrone Slothrop** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:07 pm

number15 wrote:D'Arnaud is too good to lose for an old guy like Dickey.... i saw offer em, Arencibia and Gose. Take it or leave it.

if AA wants an ace that bad, just ask Tampa for Shields..... Arencibia + Gose will do it.

No way in hell they can get Shields for those two.

The_Hater · Post #15 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:31 pm

number15 wrote:No i wouldnt......

Trading D'Arnaud would be similar to the Brewers trading their #1 prospect, Brett Lawrie for Shaun Marcum. Difference was Marcum was way younger while Dickey is way more effective.

I love Shaun Marcum but unless he put up a 4.6 WAR and won a Cy Young award that I don't know about he wasn't 'way more effective' than Dickey my friend.

Ado05 · Post #16 » by **Ado05** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:32 pm

The_Hater wrote:
number15 wrote:No i wouldnt......

Trading D'Arnaud would be similar to the Brewers trading their #1 prospect, Brett Lawrie for Shaun Marcum. Difference was Marcum was way younger while Dickey is way more effective.

I love Shaun Marcum but unless he put up a 4.6 WAR and won a Cy Young award that I don't know about he wasn't 'way more effective' than Dickey my friend.

He never said he was. He said he was younger than Dickey.

The_Hater · Post #17 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:35 pm

Adrian_05 wrote:He never said he was. He said he was younger than Dickey.

Thank you Adrian, obviously I can't read. Sorry 15, my mistake.

Ado05 · Post #18 » by **Ado05** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:36 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Adrian_05 wrote:He never said he was. He said he was younger than Dickey.

Thank you Adrian, obviously I can't read. Sorry 15, my mistake.

I wasnt trying to be rude, btw. Just trying to point you in the right direction.

Strav · Post #19 » by **Strav** » Sat Dec 8, 2012 4:17 am

voted no - prior to Florida trade - yes.

brwnman · Post #20 » by **brwnman** » Sat Dec 8, 2012 4:44 am

Skin Blues wrote:
brwnman wrote:I don't understand the fascination with Dickey. I don't want to say it's a fluke of a season, but he won't be replicating anything close to it at the Rogers Center.

Converted to a knucle ball pitcher and proceeded to put up 3 years of elite stats (sub 3 ERA over 600+ innings) topped off with a Cy Young Award. That's the fascination. Why would he not be successful in the Rogers Centre? Other than the usual park effects that every pitcher is affected by.

Looking back on how we stole Lawrie from the Brewers it does make me think twice, but Lawrie is more of the exception than the rule as far as prospects go, and Dickey is a hell of a lot better than Marcum.

38, no control after this year, losing your best prospect who you have years of control. That's why I don't get the fascination.

And the reason I pointed out the Rogers Centre was due to him not being that elite on the road. In his 3 year of "elite pitching" first year he had a 3.58 ERA on the road. 2 years ago he had a 1.37 WHIP on the road (ERA was low however). Last year, he pitched exceptional. However, you do have to take into account that in his division, he's facing Marlins, Washington and Atlanta (pitcher friendly parks) along with Philly, who were awful at scoring runs last year.

Put that all together and bring him here where all 5 parks in the division are really hitter friendly. I just don't like his chances of being elite. I doubt he would have a sub 3.50 ERA. Him being old and no control really puts a damper on things as well (if he gets signed, it'll be 15+ annually). I like young players who have value along with control over Dickey's one year of above average pitching.