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The shenanigans started with an ill-advised mound charge. They ended with a superstar's threat: "We'll see, bitch." And in between, a brawl unspooled, a $147 million pitcher broke his collarbone, a manager erupted and a feud unlikely to abate anytime soon mushroomed into the biggest to-do of the young baseball season.

Oh, fertilizer.

There is no shame aping a phrase from the great Vin Scully when it so appropriately describes what happened Thursday night at Petco Park: Los Angeles Dodgers star Zack Greinke broke his left collarbone trying to take on San Diego Padres outfielder/linebacker Carlos Quentin, who charged the mound to extricate years of pent-up frustration over being hit by Greinke twice before.

"He should not play a game until Greinke can pitch," Mattingly said about Quentin. "If he plays before Greinke pitches, something is wrong. Their guys charges the mound being an idiot and our guy is going to be out for however long and their guy is probably going to be playing in three days. It's a joke."

CapeCrusader wrote:For the season! I have Greinke on my fantasy team, this going to hurt me.

Should an eye-for-an-eye apply? If Greinke's out until June, should Quentin's suspension last that long, too?

As a process-over-results guy, my answer to that kind of question is always going to be no. What if Quentin never laid a hand on Greinke, only Greinke tripped on a pebble trying to dodge Quentin, suffered the worst ankle injury in baseball history, and never pitched again? Do you kick Quentin out of the big leagues forever? Or what if Greinke doesn't get hurt at all? Does that mean Quentin shouldn't miss any time?

I'm not a fan of pitchers deliberately throwing at hitters (particularly when there's real intent to harm), nor do I like hitters charging the mound, or the fights that ensue. Yes, players need to know they can feel safe doing their job, and that they'll have someone watching their back who's prepared to stand up for them if need be. But there's a lot to be said for jacking a tape-measure homer or striking out the side as retribution, rather than putting your team in a bad spot with the injuries and suspensions that inevitably result from brawls. In absolutely extreme cases, do what you have to do. Other than maybe some grudge-harboring, this did not ring true as an extreme case, or a justified case, for a mound-charging and a brawl.

Quentin should be suspended long enough for it to hurt, maybe matching the length of a 15-day DL stint. And I'll continue to hope that brawls remain very rare, because baseball's a much better game when the best players are playing, not gathering splinters.

Hendrix wrote:5 games or so, or whatever the standard is here.

I'm sure he didn't intend to break his collar bone, and I don't think it should be based on the freak injury as much as the action itself.

I don't really understand it though. Quinton gets hit by a ton of pitches, so maybe he's just frustrated or something. But, it didn't appear like a situation where Grienke was trying to hit him. And, if you crowd the plate all the time you should probably accept that you're going to get beaned some. Maybe he was doing as kinda a warning/intimidation thing to pitchers around the league so they stop pitching him inside, and let him crowd the plate?

During that span [since 2008], Quentin has been hit by 95 pitches...
Quentin’s rate of being hit by pitches within six inches of the inside corner is 20 times higher than the Major League average. It is, at the minimum, a little hard to have sympathy for the guy.

El Bow wrote:

Hendrix wrote:5 games or so, or whatever the standard is here.

I'm sure he didn't intend to break his collar bone, and I don't think it should be based on the freak injury as much as the action itself.

I don't really understand it though. Quinton gets hit by a ton of pitches, so maybe he's just frustrated or something. But, it didn't appear like a situation where Grienke was trying to hit him. And, if you crowd the plate all the time you should probably accept that you're going to get beaned some. Maybe he was doing as kinda a warning/intimidation thing to pitchers around the league so they stop pitching him inside, and let him crowd the plate?

For sure:

During that span [since 2008], Quentin has been hit by 95 pitches...
Quentin’s rate of being hit by pitches within six inches of the inside corner is 20 times higher than the Major League average. It is, at the minimum, a little hard to have sympathy for the guy.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/carlos-quentins-hbp-zone

Mak wrote:if he threw at him on purpose , good job. No suspension.

Rhettmatic wrote:

Mak wrote:if he threw at him on purpose , good job. No suspension.

I haven't seen any evidence that was the case -- what makes you think it was intentional?

Gibby wrote:

Rhettmatic wrote:

Mak wrote:if he threw at him on purpose , good job. No suspension.

I haven't seen any evidence that was the case -- what makes you think it was intentional?

The fact that they threw at Kemp's head earlier in the game.