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All those years of building for the future. A loaded farm system... all those drafts.. all thos signing young players... all those years committed to develop their talent.

........ all changes in 1 offseason.

I wish the Jays didnt get too excited and kept rebuilding. That way AA still would have been king of Toronto and the Jays would have a VERY bright future. I mean they were a better team last year without all these stars.

D'Arnaud and Syndergaard was the killer deal.... We went from loaded at catcher to it being a weakness. There is no one in the minors anywhere close to contributing in the JAYS system. JPA is the best we got and better get used to it.... Syndergaard was arguably the BEST pitcher in the JAYS system.

The Marlins trade looked like a steal.. but it just cleaned out the farm

Plus small peaces like even Yan Gomes and even a young Alex Avilas would be fine here

I just think JAYS will eventually have to except it and rebuild ALL OVER AGAIN... and invest years into it ALL OVER AGAIN. after being so close.

Ready for the ride Toronto?

How exactly were we close with the rebuild? The Jays were arguably on a treadmill with one (D'Arnaud) major-league ready kid coming up. Outside of that you had Gose and Hechavarria who were the closest. We were destined for last place while wasting Bautista's prime just like we did Halladay's. Do you remember last September and the direction this club was heading before the trades?

You can argue the deals that AA made were not the most optimal, but you can't fault him or the organization for taking the chance while the Red Sox and Yankees looked to be at their weakest in the past decade. Look, it hasn't worked out and it might not work out, but I'd rather crash and burn while taking the risk than go through the mini rebuilds they have the past 10-15 years.

Jesus. This is why we can't have nice things.

"The lesson is, never try". Thanks Homer.

number15 wrote:Plus small peaces like even Yan Gomes and even a young Alex Avilas would be fine here

Yes, what will this franchise do without the slugging exploits of Yan Gomes, and that young 32 year old Mike Aviles.

Unless of course you actually meant Alex Avila, to which I say, huh ?

Santoki wrote:How exactly were we close with the rebuild? The Jays were arguably on a treadmill with one (D'Arnaud) major-league ready kid coming up. Outside of that you had Gose and Hechavarria who were the closest. We were destined for last place while wasting Bautista's prime just like we did Halladay's. Do you remember last September and the direction this club was heading before the trades?

You can argue the deals that AA made were not the most optimal, but you can't fault him or the organization for taking the chance while the Red Sox and Yankees looked to be at their weakest in the past decade. Look, it hasn't worked out and it might not work out, but I'd rather crash and burn while taking the risk than go through the mini rebuilds they have the past 10-15 years.

We won't know anything about the talent we gave up for a few more years. In fact, looking at things as far back as the Happ trade, the guy moving fastest through the minors looks like Asher Wojciechowski of the Astros, but his advanced stats don't suggest top 3 starter material. Kevin Comer looks headed for short season A again, same for Joe Musgrove. Carlos Perez might make it to the majors as a backup. (That trade was worse, IMO, than either of the winter trades). Jake Marisnick is hitting .244 in AA, with 23K and only 5BB in 75 AB. Both Justin Nicolino and Noah Syndergaard are doing reasonably well in the FSL, with good numbers but nothing that yet suggests future stardom is assured. Here are their minor league player cards. Syndergaard's raw numbers look better than Nicolino's.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=592593
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=592789

And Travis d'Arnaud is injured again.

I think we gave up a lot on paper, but that doesn't mean the well is dry.

We have several interesting starting pitchers, Norris, Sanchez, Smoral, Stroman, Osuna, Nolin
We have some interesting infielders (for a change), Lopes, Guerrero, Burns.
We have some interesting outfielders, Pillar, Alford, Davis, Smith Jr.
We're a little thin at catcher if Jimenez needs more surgery.
And in my view, we're short on power (but didn't give up much last winter. We also didn't give up a lot outfield talent, just Marisnick, and only Hechevarria among infielders while getting Jose Reyes).

We have the 10th pick in next month's draft, and regretably, if this season doesn't turn around, we will have a high pick in next year's draft

The window is 3-5 years, counting this season, so the margin for error is small over the next couple of years, but it is not a lost cause. The Jays really need to upgrade 2B, 1B, and the rotation (assuming JJ leaves and Romero is still crap). It is doable. AA just has to be really good at finding talent for cheap as he was in his first two seasons.

We took a shot, it didn't work out in the first season. Maybe not ever with this roster.

But at least we took a shot.

Michael Bradley wrote:The window is 3-5 years, counting this season, so the margin for error is small over the next couple of years, but it is not a lost cause. The Jays really need to upgrade 2B, 1B, and the rotation (assuming JJ leaves and Romero is still crap). It is doable. AA just has to be really good at finding talent for cheap as he was in his first two seasons.

I think it's do-able too if he's ready to avoid handing out deals to guys like Bonifacio on the hope they turn things around next season. There are some good, cheap options that can replace them, freeing up money for other things.

Key with the rotation will be how some of our rehab arms come around and whether Stroman starts and does well.

Season isn't over...seems like we're hitting stride this topic should be discussed at the end of the season

Good lord no.. having a stocked farm system = minor league championships... nothing more.

I would have traded Bautista after the 2011 season, adding 2 or 3 stud prospects to the mix

As it stands now, where does the organization go from here?

U_Mad wrote:Season isn't over...seems like we're hitting stride this topic should be discussed at the end of the season

It shouldn't be discussed at all. They looked like a common treadmill team at the end of last season and would have been one for the foreseeable future unless they made the decisions they did (or unless they traded off all of their MLB players of value like Bautista and Encarnacion to create a real rebuild).

People already said it but I got to agree with the sentiment here. Even seeing how things have turned out so far, I'm glad that the Jays actually went out and tried to build a contender instead of sitting around doing nothing. I wish they did it the year before but oh well. And at the very least, it shows us that Rogers is willing to put money in the Jays.

U_Mad wrote:Season isn't over...seems like we're hitting stride this topic should be discussed at the end of the season

yep, the season is far from over. I feel more confident this team can make the playoffs right now than I did that least years team would at this time of the year (when they were at .500 or a couple games ahead or whatever).

I mean I wouldn't bet a large sum of money on them making it, but I still think it's way too early to throw in the towel.

Nocturne wrote:People already said it but I got to agree with the sentiment here. Even seeing how things have turned out so far, I'm glad that the Jays actually went out and tried to build a contender instead of sitting around doing nothing. I wish they did it the year before but oh well. And at the very least, it shows us that Rogers is willing to put money in the Jays.

Choosing not to acquire high priced veterans doesn't mean the organization would be "sitting around doing nothing"

There are different ways to construct a contender, and acquiring young talent to contend in 2015 is still very much building a contender

I think the biggest concern for me is that ownership will stop spending money. As long as they continue spending, the Jays will be able to replenish the farm and chase free-agents to fill holes. But I certainly don't think trading prospect for a chance to compete sets the team back years. Even if they fall short this year, with some tweaking they should have a 3 year window.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

U_Mad wrote:Season isn't over...seems like we're hitting stride this topic should be discussed at the end of the season

It shouldn't be discussed at all. They looked like a common treadmill team at the end of last season and would have been one for the foreseeable future unless they made the decisions they did (or unless they traded off all of their MLB players of value like Bautista and Encarnacion to create a real rebuild).

Exactly. The post-2012 team needed a lot of help in order to win in 2013, so doing the usual (i.e. signing relievers, hoping young players pan out, etc) while holding on to Bautista would have been a waste of time for both Bautista and the Jays. They either had to rebuild or go for it, and they chose the latter. Unfortunately, that has failed in 2013 (I'm not expecting a miracle run though I hope I'm wrong), but that doesn't mean it was the wrong move or can't be rectified in 2014.

In reality, the moment Bautista is gone (either when his contract runs out or he stops being elite), the Jays are going to do what they probably should have done in 2009-12, and that is pick in the top 5-10 in the draft for a few years. They won't have a choice. The team, as of now, lacks elite prospects and elite young talent (unless Lawrie pans out offensively). Barring some great drafting in 2013-16, the Jays are not looking like a long-term monster. They made their moves to take advantage of the remainder of Bautista's prime, and that's fine, but now they have to keep at it until they have no choice but to blow it up. It will happen anyway.

I don't care if they set themselves back and have to take a few years to restock in'14 and '15. They went all in, cashed in and tried to go for it. They can still make some moves to add to this group and try and really contend next year.

Here's the thing, they were either going to waste away Joey Bats prime years still stocking or going for it. Sometimes in life, you make moves and things don't work out. They haven't this year and no one should be happy. But you can only rebuild for so long, the whole point of stocking all those assets is to cash in at some point.

The good thing about trading prospects for players on good contracts is that we can still trade those players. So we can recoup some of those prospects at least and have money available for FAs.

Man, you write like next year all of our players turn back into pumpkins or something

You realise, I hope, that we still have the bulk of the team (pretty much everybody except JJ, and even then, he can be re-signed) intact next year, and can try again?