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I'm not trying to defend Farrell but AA and him never worked together nor saw eye to eye. There were reports after Hutch and Morrow went down that Farrell wanted pitching help, but AA never added pitching till that Happ trade. AA never got heat for this, and in the end everyone bashed Farrell. What are your thoughts on his success, and if this keeps up I think he could be in the running for Manager of the Year.

Farrell was a terrible in-game manager. His potential as a GM is, as yet, indeterminate.

Still doesn't change the fact he made a bunch of bone headed moves during games.

I think the rift between him and AA communication wise on players such as Visquel and lack of pitching just drove him away from actually caring.

galacticos2 wrote:I think the rift between him and AA communication wise on players such as Visquel and lack of pitching just drove him away from actually caring.

Farrell not caring would be good grounds for "Farrell-haters", no?

SharoneWright wrote:

galacticos2 wrote:I think the rift between him and AA communication wise on players such as Visquel and lack of pitching just drove him away from actually caring.

Farrell not caring would be good grounds for "Farrell-haters", no?

But what cause that? AA. Why aren't there more AA haters? JF is doing tremendous with the Sox right now. On paper, we the Jays have a better team from pitching to hitting. People can't blame the players only, its the coaching staff and management that needs to get some heat. AA inexperience has shown with hiring Farrell (who was highly regarded, but too close to the Red Sox) and hiring a dope like Gibbons.

galacticos2 wrote:

SharoneWright wrote:

galacticos2 wrote:I think the rift between him and AA communication wise on players such as Visquel and lack of pitching just drove him away from actually caring.

Farrell not caring would be good grounds for "Farrell-haters", no?

But what cause that? AA. Why aren't there more AA haters? JF is doing tremendous with the Sox right now. On paper, we the Jays have a better team from pitching to hitting. People can't blame the players only, its the coaching staff and management that needs to get some heat. AA inexperience has shown with hiring Farrell (who was highly regarded, but too close to the Red Sox) and hiring a dope like Gibbons.

to be fair we havent had the pitching we had on paper to start the season, only dickeys left standing

galacticos2 wrote:

SharoneWright wrote:

galacticos2 wrote:I think the rift between him and AA communication wise on players such as Visquel and lack of pitching just drove him away from actually caring.

Farrell not caring would be good grounds for "Farrell-haters", no?

But what cause that? AA. Why aren't there more AA haters? JF is doing tremendous with the Sox right now. On paper, we the Jays have a better team from pitching to hitting. People can't blame the players only, its the coaching staff and management that needs to get some heat. AA inexperience has shown with hiring Farrell (who was highly regarded, but too close to the Red Sox) and hiring a dope like Gibbons.

You make 2 assertions here, neither of which hold.

1. AA made Farrell not care how to manage baseball games in Toronto.

2. Dissonance between Farrell and AA excuses Farrell from professionally doing his job. Indeed you infer it justifies him screwing the pouch.

Farrell was not a good manager in Toronto.

Bad managers have won in baseball before. Ultimately, it is the talent that dictates the success or failure of a team. Farrell simply has better talent (or at least talent that is playing a lot better) in Boston than he did here. If Farrell had better talent in Toronto, his stupid in-game decisions would have been less of a concern.

As far as Farrell and AA, I will side with Farrell in regards to the pitching. There is no justifying AA starting 2012 with McGowan, Cecil, and Alvarez pencilled into the rotation with no depth to back them up. I understand why AA did that (if Drabek, Alvarez, Cecil, etc, panned out it would have been a young, cheap, and highly controllable rotation) but it was poor roster management. Another gripe would be lack of OBP players, but Farrell not taking advantage of platoons hurt in that respect as well.

Farrell was bad here, but the talent wasn't exactly great either. Poor match.

Ah yes. John "Inspirational Messages" Farrell.
Will never forget that debacle of a press conference.

Will also never forget how dreadful John Farrell's decision making was. For all that's gone wrong this year, John Gibbons has at least shown that he's a wildy superior in-game strategist in comparison.

Michael Bradley wrote:Farrell was not a good manager in Toronto.

Bad managers have won in baseball before. Ultimately, it is the talent that dictates the success or failure of a team. Farrell simply has better talent (or at least talent that is playing a lot better) in Boston than he did here. If Farrell had better talent in Toronto, his stupid in-game decisions would have been less of a concern.

As far as Farrell and AA, I will side with Farrell in regards to the pitching. There is no justifying AA starting 2012 with McGowan, Cecil, and Alvarez pencilled into the rotation with no depth to back them up. I understand why AA did that (if Drabek, Alvarez, Cecil, etc, panned out it would have been a young, cheap, and highly controllable rotation) but it was poor roster management. Another gripe would be lack of OBP players, but Farrell not taking advantage of platoons hurt in that respect as well.

Farrell was bad here, but the talent wasn't exactly great either. Poor match.

Exactly...it goes to show how marginal the manager really is. They make some pretty important decisions in the context of individual games, but over the course of a full season that amounts to at most a handful of wins. It's talent that ultimately gets you where you're going, and also minimizes the chances of the manager doing something stupid...Farrell's bullpen management looks immeasurably improved simply because his options are good, especially since his continued use of Hanrahan in high-leverage spots was mooted when Hanrahan's arm troubles took the decision away from him.

Yes, the Jays are struggling because of Gibbons and the Red Sox are first place because of Farrell.

Schadenfreude wrote:Exactly...it goes to show how marginal the manager really is. They make some pretty important decisions in the context of individual games, but over the course of a full season that amounts to at most a handful of wins.

except joe maddon, who has been worth about 12-15 wins so far

Where are the John Farrell haters now?

Right here.

Right hurrrrr!!!

Farrell was bad,

so is Gibbons.

Farrell-haters are still alive and well. His in-game strategy is nothing to write home about. And Gibbons isn't anything special, either. But Farrell-haters are plenty upset at him b/c he turned his back on us the second he got whiff of an opportunity opening in Boston.

Boston may have been his dream job, but it was unsettling at how badly he wanted out of Toronto for it. He gave the organization the proverbial "f*** you" b/c, whether he would say it or not, he thought Toronto wasn't worth his time nor did he think there was any prestige in managing here.

He showed he had no desire to hold the privilege of managing the Toronto Blue Jays baseball club, and it's arguable whether he was even interested in this club based on his urgency to leave.

The fact that Gibbons isn't anything special, and that Boston is ahead of us in the standings, IMO, is irrelevant to why Farrell should remain disliked by our fanbase.

sule wrote:Farrell-haters are still alive and well. His in-game strategy is nothing to write home about. And Gibbons isn't anything special, either. But Farrell-haters are plenty upset at him b/c he turned his back on us the second he got whiff of an opportunity opening in Boston.

Boston may have been his dream job, but it was unsettling at how badly he wanted out of Toronto for it. He gave the organization the proverbial "f*** you" b/c, whether he would say it or not, he thought Toronto wasn't worth his time nor did he think there was any prestige in managing here.

He showed he had no desire to hold the privilege of managing the Toronto Blue Jays baseball club, and it's arguable whether he was even interested in this club based on his urgency to leave.

The fact that Gibbons isn't anything special, and that Boston is ahead of us in the standings, IMO, is irrelevant to why Farrell should remain disliked by our fanbase.

Couldn't have summed it up better. Farrell will always be hated in Toronto more by how he handled his exit rather than how he handled the team.

Mattd97 wrote:

galacticos2 wrote:

SharoneWright wrote:
Farrell not caring would be good grounds for "Farrell-haters", no?

But what cause that? AA. Why aren't there more AA haters? JF is doing tremendous with the Sox right now. On paper, we the Jays have a better team from pitching to hitting. People can't blame the players only, its the coaching staff and management that needs to get some heat. AA inexperience has shown with hiring Farrell (who was highly regarded, but too close to the Red Sox) and hiring a dope like Gibbons.

to be fair we havent had the pitching we had on paper to start the season, only dickeys left standing

and Buerhle. But yeah we were so excited to have six MLB-quality starters, now 3 hit the DL and the Romero issue

Farrell sucks.

Stop posting.