JPK Venting Thread

[torontoaces04]

Arencibia is just the absolute worst.

Historically, he's the worst too. JPK is hitting .145 on the road this season, EWWWWWW!!! That's the MLB record by 15 points! Mario Mendoza was a terrific defensive player, thus, he had some value.

JP is one of the worst offensive players in the history of baseball, but he's also one of the leagues worst defensive catchers. If he's still the starting catcher next season, this team isn't serious about winning.

[tecumseh18]

Zaun said it all for me on Tim and Sid (OK, just Sid) yesterday. And used advanced stats to do it.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/on-demand/

[Secueritae]

95th out of 106 in OBP, last of starting catchers, and worse than many back-ups.
A WAR of 0.2, also easily the worst of all starters.

[Randle McMurphy]

JP is one of the worst offensive players in the history of baseball, but he's also one of the leagues worst defensive catchers.

He's been awful this season, but neither of these two things are true (a career 78 wRC+ doesn't rank him anywhere close to the "worst offensive players in the history of baseball," and both DRS and FanGraphs have Arencibia rated as a slightly above average defensive catcher over the last two seasons).

If he's still the starting catcher next season, this team isn't serious about winning.

Agreed on that front. I don't see much chance that he will be.

[BigLeagueChew]

He won't be here next year. Backup needs to be able to catch a knuckleball and starter needs to do everything that JP hasn't done.

The endless mishaps on plays at home plate, the bad pitch sequence calling, the cross ups between pitcher and catcher with signals, terrible throws to catch base runners and lack of ability to lead the team. Also can't hit.

[BigLeagueChew]

quoting myself from December 2012

Can't we get a better defensive catcher with a career OBP higher than .275? I don't think that's too much to ask for. He's stumbled enough for me but if you want to see less strikes being called for us, more runs against than we should have, and a terrible catcher again next year then have fun with that.

Yes it was fun.

[Santoki]

quoting myself from December 2012

Can't we get a better defensive catcher with a career OBP higher than .275? I don't think that's too much to ask for. He's stumbled enough for me but if you want to see less strikes being called for us, more runs against than we should have, and a terrible catcher again next year then have fun with that.

Yes it was fun.

I'm not sure there were many that were happy to have Arencibia as the starting catcher this season. But, even the biggest of detractors couldn't have envisioned this gigantic of a turd of a season from him.

[Lateral Quicks]

quoting myself from December 2012

Can't we get a better defensive catcher with a career OBP higher than .275? I don't think that's too much to ask for. He's stumbled enough for me but if you want to see less strikes being called for us, more runs against than we should have, and a terrible catcher again next year then have fun with that.

Yes it was fun.

I'm not sure there were many that were happy to have Arencibia as the starting catcher this season. But, even the biggest of detractors couldn't have envisioned this gigantic of a turd of a season from him.

Agreed, no one could have foresaw him losing ~100 points of OPS, especially when he was starting from the low .700s. He was tolerable at previous years levels of production.

[dballislife]

only question left, can he get it to the .180s..yes he can, yes he can

.179 would be epic, but if anyone has it in him, its our boy JP

[dballislife]

want to add in 18 walks in 132 games and 452 at bats...wtf is that, seriously wtf is that

[torontoaces04]

Advanced stats certainly don't tell the whole story with JPK. If advanced stats try to portray him as a "slightly above average" catcher, there is something wrong with the way the stats are being calculated. You see it all the time with advanced stats, they are so finicky. Remember when, because of the shift, Brett Lawrie was the greatest defensive third baseman in the history of the game?!?! Something like this must be the case when discussing catchers.

JPK doesn't pass the stats test, but more importantly, he doesn't pass the good-ol'fashioned eye test. Watching him stink it up out there, game after game, he simply doesn't have the skills to be a major league catcher.

[Dan2087]

want to add in 18 walks in 132 games and 452 at bats...wtf is that, seriously wtf is that

Sadly, he had 18 walks last year in 347 AB's

[Randle McMurphy]

Advanced stats certainly don't tell the whole story with JPK. If advanced stats try to portray him as a "slightly above average" catcher, there is something wrong with the way the stats are being calculated. You see it all the time with advanced stats, they are so finicky. Remember when, because of the shift, Brett Lawrie was the greatest defensive third baseman in the history of the game?!?! Something like this must be the case when discussing catchers.

JPK doesn't pass the stats test, but more importantly, he doesn't pass the good-ol'fashioned eye test. Watching him stink it up out there, game after game, he simply doesn't have the skills to be a major league catcher.

So basically you choose to ignore the stats (an actual objective measuring stick) because they don't fit your false narrative. That's fine, but just know that you're wrong here on those specific claims.

[Geddy]

.195 after tonight

[Relentless88]

18 walks and 144 strikeouts...

[Avenger]

quoting myself from December 2012

Can't we get a better defensive catcher with a career OBP higher than .275? I don't think that's too much to ask for. He's stumbled enough for me but if you want to see less strikes being called for us, more runs against than we should have, and a terrible catcher again next year then have fun with that.

Yes it was fun.

I have like a hundred of these posts and maybe another hundred where Randle was telling us how JP shouldn't be judged yet because of some minor wrist injury years ago, i'm so tempted to bump those

[Randle McMurphy]

quoting myself from December 2012

Can't we get a better defensive catcher with a career OBP higher than .275? I don't think that's too much to ask for. He's stumbled enough for me but if you want to see less strikes being called for us, more runs against than we should have, and a terrible catcher again next year then have fun with that.

Yes it was fun.

I have like a hundred of these posts and maybe another hundred where Randle was telling us how JP shouldn't be judged yet because of some minor wrist injury years ago, i'm so tempted to bump those

Go ahead, bump anything and everything you want. We'd actually see the truth of the matter then instead of your disingenuous, trolling interpretation.

For the record, I would have been glad to upgrade from Arencibia at any point in the last two seasons (particularly going into this season when the team was built to win). That said, I still believe it was completely reasonable to think there may have been more in the bat of a player who had broken both his finger and his hand in consecutive seasons. You'd think you would understand that concept better than anybody considering your suggestion that Thole's concussion was the reason for his awful offensive 2012 rather than just being plain bad.

[Avenger]

Go ahead, bump anything and everything you want. We'd actually see the truth of the matter then instead of your disingenuous, trolling interpretation.

For the record, I would have been glad to upgrade from Arencibia at any point in the last two seasons (particularly going into this season when the team was built to win). That said, I still believe it was completely reasonable to think there may have been more in the bat of a player who had broken both his finger and his hand in consecutive seasons. You'd think you would understand that concept better than anybody considering your suggestion that Thole's concussion was the reason for his awful offensive 2012 rather than just being plain bad.

Ok so you call me disingenuous and a troll and in the very next paragraph admit to making the exact nonsensical argument that i "accused" you of making?

[Randle McMurphy]

Ok so you call me disingenuous and a troll and in the very next paragraph admit to making the exact nonsensical argument that i accused you of making?

Huh? I didn't know there was anything nonsensical about pointing out your opinion on Thole's concussion-affected 2012. You made that known plenty and quite recently too:

i want an all star at every position too but that's not going to happen, the FA and trade market at Catcher is thin to non existent. Regardless, your opinion of Thole is not based on any facts at all, between 2010 and 2011 when he was healthy and not dealing with post concussion syndrome he put up an OBP of .350, that's above league average and well above league average for a catcher. He's not a great defender in terms of throwing out runners and blocking pitches but he's good at framing pitches, if given a full time role there is good reason to believe he'll end up as the 13-20th best catcher in Baseball, hardly spectacular but still very valuable.

Thole on the other hand had a serious concussion and its undeniable that post concussion symptoms can persist for weeks and months even though you appear to be healthy, there's really no other injury like it in sports. Usually i am strongly against cherry picking data but post concussion syndrome is one of the few legitimate excuses

viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1257632&start=705#sthash.AhgRBGMq.dpuf

Thole is competent player, anyone who disagrees should not be taken seriously, the only poor season of his pro career came after a serious concussion. Randle is hilarious and deeply hypocritical though, he's been making excuses for JP because of some BS wrist injury that apparently has lasted for almost three years but he can't see the obvious facts in front of him when it comes to Thole who has consistent history of getting on base and framing pitches.

viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1257632&start=705

it is when one of those years happens to consist of 19 bats and other when he was suffering from post concussion symptoms . Again, show me once piece of evidence that suggests that Thole was anything less than a competent player before the concussion, go all the way back to his teenage years if you have to.

viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1258344&start=195#sthash.QAV61YrM.dpuf

[Schad]

When you include Blanco's time in Arizona, the three catchers we've had receiving any appreciable time have OBPs of .228 (Blanco), .230 (JP) and .233 (Thole). Who reigns supreme at year's end?