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Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:42 pm
by number15
Encarnacion can anchor the line up. Bautista is turning 34 next season and happens to be the most valuable player on the Jays roster, especially considering his contract.
Trading him would land the Jays atleast 2 impact players, plus a "A" level prospect for the future.
for example, instead of being buyers, Jays would be sellers, yet still improve the team.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:44 pm
by Raptors Realtor
If AA can get a good mix of current and future talent than I think it has to be considered. However, we'd need a high calibre OF and either a mid rotation SP or above average 2B, in addition to a solid prospect. I know it sounds silly to ship him out for an asset that would replace him in the OF, however this deal would be about 2 things... Increasing the talent level at other positions while trading an aging asset while we can still get high value.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:41 pm
by Randle McMurphy
Or you could opt to keep the 74 win team's best player and actually add to him rather than substract. Who knows, it might help.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:24 pm
by Secueritae
If we can get a good deal, that don't need to be immediate impact players (I'd take young high-ceiling prospects) for him I'd do it now while he still has decent value.
I'd keep EE and if we aren't able to build around him I'd trade him in a couple years also for a similar package. Can set us up for the future and rebuild the system that AA gutted last year for Dickey/Johnson.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:36 pm
by Ku-Bar
Yep Randle McMurphy is on point. The problem is Jay's don't spend well in FA overall. So adding to the good players you already have without having to give up assets becomes the biggest dilema with this team in my opinion.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:15 am
by UN-Owen
He should have been traded after the 2011 season
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:17 am
by UN-Owen
Randle McMurphy wrote:Or you could opt to keep the 74 win team's best player and actually add to him rather than substract. Who knows, it might help.
Agreed. Let's go for 80 wins!
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:34 am
by Randle McMurphy
UN-Owen wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Or you could opt to keep the 74 win team's best player and actually add to him rather than substract. Who knows, it might help.
Agreed. Let's go for 80 wins!
90 would be preferable.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:07 am
by Duffman100
I wonder if there's any thought of moving him into more DH days. Injuries are costing him and the team. I know his arm is killer, but having him in the lineup is much more valuable.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:34 am
by C Court
I am summarizing a few pages into one sentence, but in "Great Expectations", Davidi/Lott suggested they've heard that some (un-named) senior people in the Jays organization have grown weary of Bautista's self-centered tantrums and umpire outbursts and they worry about his durability/injury record, despite a reasonable contract.
Things were being said about Bautista after the season in a way that had not been said in previous seasons. The implication being that the team might be open to a trade.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:20 am
by Randle McMurphy
Centre Court wrote:I am summarizing a few pages into one sentence, but in "Great Expectations", Davidi/Lott suggested they've heard that some (un-named) senior people in the Jays organization have grown weary of Bautista's self-centered tantrums and umpire outbursts and they worry about his durability/injury record, despite a reasonable contract.
Things were being said about Bautista after the season in a way that had not been said in previous seasons. The implication being that the team might be open to a trade.
Great way to build trade value there.
Jays management should probably spend more time worrying about constructing a pitching staff that isn't the worst in baseball, not dishing dirt (about something as ridiculous as umpire outbursts no less) on their franchise player through the media.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:26 am
by Randle McMurphy
Duffman100 wrote:I wonder if there's any thought of moving him into more DH days. Injuries are costing him and the team. I know his arm is killer, but having him in the lineup is much more valuable.
Until he regresses defensively, I don't think you can. They just have nobody in the organization to replace him in RF.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:47 am
by C Court
Randle McMurphy wrote:Centre Court wrote:I am summarizing a few pages into one sentence, but in "Great Expectations", Davidi/Lott suggested they've heard that some (un-named) senior people in the Jays organization have grown weary of Bautista's self-centered tantrums and umpire outbursts and they worry about his durability/injury record, despite a reasonable contract.
Things were being said about Bautista after the season in a way that had not been said in previous seasons. The implication being that the team might be open to a trade.
Great way to build trade value there.
Jays management should probably spend more time worrying about constructing a pitching staff that isn't the worst in baseball, not dishing dirt (about something as ridiculous as umpire outbursts no less) on their franchise player through the media.
Apparently (according to the book), Jerry Howarth made comments on the FAN at season's end which questioned Bautista's leadership and stated his outbursts were selfish. Davidi/Lott indicated that Jerry was parroting the Jays company line and his comments were not random.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:56 am
by Randle McMurphy
Centre Court wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Centre Court wrote:I am summarizing a few pages into one sentence, but in "Great Expectations", Davidi/Lott suggested they've heard that some (un-named) senior people in the Jays organization have grown weary of Bautista's self-centered tantrums and umpire outbursts and they worry about his durability/injury record, despite a reasonable contract.
Things were being said about Bautista after the season in a way that had not been said in previous seasons. The implication being that the team might be open to a trade.
Great way to build trade value there.
Jays management should probably spend more time worrying about constructing a pitching staff that isn't the worst in baseball, not dishing dirt (about something as ridiculous as umpire outbursts no less) on their franchise player through the media.
Apparently (according to the book), Jerry Howarth made comments on the FAN at season's end which questioned Bautista's leadership and stated his outbursts were selfish. Davidi/Lott indicated that Jerry was parroting the Jays company line and his comments were not random.
Oh, I remember them. I was listening at the time. Found them completely ridiculous, obviously (as Jerry had been talking about how the same player doing exactly the same things was a great leader for the previous three seasons), but I assumed they came from somewhere above him.
When things go wrong, it is always the best players that become the target.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:14 am
by Duffman100
Randle McMurphy wrote:Duffman100 wrote:I wonder if there's any thought of moving him into more DH days. Injuries are costing him and the team. I know his arm is killer, but having him in the lineup is much more valuable.
Until he regresses defensively, I don't think you can. They just have nobody in the organization to replace him in RF.
I agree that nobody can replicate his defense, but is that defensive value worth him missing 30-40 games? I'm not so sure it is.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:38 am
by flatjacket1
Randle McMurphy wrote:Or you could opt to keep the 74 win team's best player and actually add to him rather than substract. Who knows, it might help.
If we get 74 wins with him, maybe that suggest trading him may be for the better.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:17 am
by Randle McMurphy
flatjacket1 wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Or you could opt to keep the 74 win team's best player and actually add to him rather than substract. Who knows, it might help.
If we get 74 wins with him, maybe that suggest trading him may be for the better.
Not sure how that conclusion follows. Should the Leafs have traded Mats Sundin because he couldn't carry scrubs like Jonas Hoglund to a Stanley Cup?
Bautista is one of the few consistent high-level producers on the Jays. Even if you happened to acquire somebody as good as him in a trade and replaced his value (and there aren't too many of those in the majors to begin with, let alone players available to be acquired), all you've essentially accomplished is maintaining the status quo. The same status quo that wasn't anywhere near good enough last season.
In reality, what their 2013 win total actually suggests is that perhaps the team isn't good enough overall and that rebuilding is the route this organization should be taking in 2014. But as that clearly isn't the route AA is going to be taking, my advice would not be to trade the team's best player away. If they want any shot at all of contending next season, they must add, not subtract.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:22 am
by Randle McMurphy
Duffman100 wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Duffman100 wrote:I wonder if there's any thought of moving him into more DH days. Injuries are costing him and the team. I know his arm is killer, but having him in the lineup is much more valuable.
Until he regresses defensively, I don't think you can. They just have nobody in the organization to replace him in RF.
I agree that nobody can replicate his defense, but is that defensive value worth him missing 30-40 games? I'm not so sure it is.
Don't know that moving him to DH would ensure those extra games. It's his wrist and hip that have given him problems in the past, which have the potential to get aggravated by his swing anyway.
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:39 am
by Schad
Re: Trade Bautista (i guess)
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:35 pm
by whysoserious
Randle McMurphy wrote:
Not sure how that conclusion follows. Should the Leafs have traded Mats Sundin because he couldn't carry scrubs like Jonas Hoglund to a Stanley Cup?
Bautista is one of the few consistent high-level producers on the Jays. Even if you happened to acquire somebody as good as him in a trade and replaced his value (and there aren't too many of those in the majors to begin with, let alone players available to be acquired), all you've essentially accomplished is maintaining the status quo. The same status quo that wasn't anywhere near good enough last season.
In reality, what their 2013 win total actually suggests is that perhaps the team isn't good enough overall and that rebuilding is the route this organization should be taking in 2014. But as that clearly isn't the route AA is going to be taking, my advice would not be to trade the team's best player away. If they want any shot at all of contending next season, they must add, not subtract.
I wouldn't put the blame on Bautista for last season, at the same time I do have questions about his attitude and leadership. Now they are pretty minor.
But sometimes in sports, trading one guy that produces, for another that produces equally can have an impact. The overall production impact could be similar, but the make up of the team could drastically change with different results.
One of the things this team lacks, and this is not on Bautista really, but a leader that holds players accountable. Play the game the right way, do the right things, show up and play hard, work hard all the time. If we had such a player, maybe they would have told JP to shut up when all that stuff with Zaun went down and said look in the mirror at how you're playing and helping the team.
Again, this is not to put it on Bautista, but this team does definitely lack a leader from a player perspective.
