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Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:58 pm
by dagger
Richard Griffin @RGriffinStar 4m
As per usual #bluejays avoid all arbitration hearings: Rasmus ($7M), Rogers ($1.85M), Cecil ($1.3M). Now 18 players guaranteed for $125M
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:25 pm
by torontoaces04
As to be expected. Really don't see Colby being with the Jays past this season.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:26 pm
by satyr9
Significantly more than MLBTR had for any of them. Rogers and Cecil are high, but nothing extreme and well within range. IMO the Rasmus is prelude to an extension. Some schmuck on the radio was talking about him being set up like EE for a mid-season deal if he performs and I think that's right, especially with the this deal signed.
edit: Rasmus really isn't high at all. They had him at 6.5m, not sure why I remembered a different number, but it's pretty much right in line.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:47 pm
by Graham's Cracker
dagger wrote:Richard Griffin @RGriffinStar 4m
As per usual #bluejays avoid all arbitration hearings: Rasmus ($7M), Rogers ($1.85M), Cecil ($1.3M). Now 18 players guaranteed for $125M
I think Griff is forgetting to include RickyRo and his nearly 8 million
For 25 roster spots, If we factor in:
19. Lawrie
20. Delabar
21. Perez/Redmond/Jeffress
22. Goins
23. Wagner
24. 4th OFer (Goins, Sierra)
25. Loup
All told we're probably around $136 million in committed contracts to fill out the 25-man roster as it sits.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:09 pm
by satyr9
Graham's Cracker wrote:dagger wrote:Richard Griffin @RGriffinStar 4m
As per usual #bluejays avoid all arbitration hearings: Rasmus ($7M), Rogers ($1.85M), Cecil ($1.3M). Now 18 players guaranteed for $125M
I think Griff is forgetting to include RickyRo and his nearly 8 million
For 25 roster spots, If we factor in:
19. Lawrie
20. Delabar
21. Perez/Redmond/Jeffress
22. Goins
23. Wagner
24. 4th OFer (Goins, Sierra)
25. Loup
All told we're probably around $136 million in committed contracts to fill out the 25-man roster as it sits.
If you don't count Ricky, who is the 18th? I've got:
Buehrle - 18m
Reyes - 16m
Bautista - 14m
Dickey - 12m
Encarnacion - 9m
Morrow - 8m
Cabrera - 8m
Romero - 7.75m
Lind - 7m
Rasmus - 7m
Happ - 5.2m
Janssen - 4m
Santos - 3.75m
Navarro - 3m
Izturis - 3m
Rogers - 1.85m
McGowan - 1.5m
Cecil - 1.3m
That's 18 for 130.35m
Throw in another 4-5m depending on who makes the roster and what min salaries actually are for the current payroll.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:14 pm
by Schad
I have us sitting on $132.6m, 18 players on the roster, using Cot's numbers. If those other seven spots are filled at around $500k a pop, that gets you to GC's $136m figure.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:23 pm
by satyr9
Schadenfreude wrote:I have us sitting on $132.6m, 18 players on the roster, using Cot's numbers. If those other seven spots are filled at around $500k a pop, that gets you to GC's $136m figure.
Cot's numbers in his excel files just include the averaged signing bonus over the life of the deal. I don't like including that for current payroll.
Consider that he has Buehrle at 18m on the main page, but 19m in his spreadsheet, because MIA signed him to a 4m bonus and 6m first year salary. Obviously that 4m over 4 years plays no role on the Jays payroll.
edit: whoops, I forgot Thole. I didn't realize he was guaranteed. I think Graham's right. If you take out Ricky and add Thole you get 123.85m, which is likely just being rounded to 125m, so that's where the number's coming from.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:34 pm
by Schad
satyr9 wrote:Schadenfreude wrote:I have us sitting on $132.6m, 18 players on the roster, using Cot's numbers. If those other seven spots are filled at around $500k a pop, that gets you to GC's $136m figure.
Cot's numbers in his excel files just include the averaged signing bonus over the life of the deal. I don't like including that for current payroll.
Consider that he has Buehrle at 18m on the main page, but 19m in his spreadsheet, because MIA signed him to a 4m bonus and 6m first year salary. Obviously that 4m over 4 years plays no role on the Jays payroll.
edit: whoops, I forgot Thole. I didn't realize he was guaranteed.
In the case of Buehrle, his signing bonus was deferred, so I have not the foggiest idea when it's to be paid...it might actually be averaged over the course of the deal. Best I'm aware, there are no other signing bonuses that play a significant role, so we're talking a difference of $1m in the overalls.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:46 pm
by satyr9
Oh, a million here or there, you can count it how you like. My point was 132.6 - 1.0 (Buehrle) - 1.25 (Thole) = 130.35m, although I think you had 19 players counted, not 18 (Ricky's down at the bottom).
I can't stand averaging the signing bonus, but it's just personal preference. Cot's made me take it out of his numbers 'cause every year Lind had to be x.2m instead of round numbers. I refuse to believe a 0.6m bonus in a year that he made 0.4m wasn't just a 1.0m year and the 4/5/5 he made after that were nice and round too. Same back when we had Vdub. So much easier with nice round numbers.
I will say, I don't think it's at all likely that the Jays were on the hook for any of Buehrle's bonus. I don't care how they set-up payment, the signing bonus costs are incurred by the team that did the signing regardless of when they trade the guy. Just like if his first year salary had deferred payments beyond they wouldn't become the responsibility of another club through trade, but it really couldn't matter less.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:02 pm
by dagger
I believe the Jays received cash in the Miami trade, wouldn't the proper accounting be to amortize that over the life of the contract? Ergo, if we're expensing a signing bonus, shouldn't we be booking a pro-rata share of cash received in trades.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:07 pm
by satyr9
dagger wrote:I believe the Jays received cash in the Miami trade, wouldn't the proper accounting be to amortize that over the life of the contract? Ergo, if we're expensing a signing bonus, shouldn't we be booking a pro-rata share of cash received in trades.
I think it should. Personally, I think it should be used to knock down the AAV of Buehrle's contract this year and next (it was 8.5m so by as much as 4.25m), since I think that's what it was paying for, but that's just me guessing, so I don't include it. I treat it as if it wrote down last year's salary, which it had to if you believe it was only 120m last year.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:08 pm
by Schad
dagger wrote:I believe the Jays received cash in the Miami trade, wouldn't the proper accounting be to amortize that over the life of the contract? Ergo, if we're expensing a signing bonus, shouldn't we be booking a pro-rata share of cash received in trades.
It's probably amortized for accounting purposes, but not by MLB's treatment of payrolls and luxury tax calculations, thus the Yankees' choice to receive a giant lump sum for Vernon Wells in 2014, rather than the majority in 2013.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:37 pm
by satyr9
Schadenfreude wrote:dagger wrote:I believe the Jays received cash in the Miami trade, wouldn't the proper accounting be to amortize that over the life of the contract? Ergo, if we're expensing a signing bonus, shouldn't we be booking a pro-rata share of cash received in trades.
It's probably amortized for accounting purposes, but not by MLB's treatment of payrolls and luxury tax calculations, thus the Yankees' choice to receive a giant lump sum for Vernon Wells in 2014, rather than the majority in 2013.
Right, if we're talking how the league sees things for tax purposes then things are different, but unless we become a tax team, which I don't foresee, then I don't care about that at all. So for the rest we just guess at how Rogers puts things in their books 'cause it can go a number of ways.
If I'm sharing here, I try to take guesses out, even Cot's guesses about signing bonuses, but my personal opinion is last year the payroll, calculated by Rogers to start (they obviously saved a ton with the injuries and also trading bonerface) was about 125m and that doesn't account for the 8.5m they got from MIA, which I think, one way or another, is a write down against the Buehrle/Reyes inflation on the back-end. I will say, even if that was the intention, maybe they just use that cash to write-off Ricky, I have no idea how much fluidity their system would allow for.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:18 pm
by dagger
The real question is how much higher can AA go. Does he have the ability to go to $15m, signing one SP if the price goes down? Or does he have to trade for an SP and offload some salary in the process?
Or is $136m the ceiling he's working with?
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:37 pm
by satyr9
dagger wrote:The real question is how much higher can AA go. Does he have the ability to go to $15m, signing one SP if the price goes down? Or does he have to trade for an SP and offload some salary in the process?
Or is $136m the ceiling he's working with?
I'm confident there's some room in this budget still. I don't know what it is, but I think the management would not leave the door open to potential moves if there weren't potential for moves. I think they learned from Darvish. That doesn't mean absolutely something will happen, as I think the room is limited and the market may preclude him, but if the payroll was the 135m it is now or 140m as a hard ceiling, we'd all have experienced a different company line from AA this offseason already.
I'd guess he's got at least 12-13m available. That's a clear blue sky number based on what a UFA bargain deal might look like. I guess it's possible that much room would be dependent on dumping Happ elsewhere too, but I don't think so. I hope it's higher and this is a struggle to find the right fit rather than any fit inside the budget, but I believe something is there to be spent or we would've gotten the hard no by now in public.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:47 am
by Graham's Cracker
I see Rzepczynski got 1.37 M from the Indians so the Cecil deal looks like a pretty good comp to him.
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:33 am
by dagger
Some of the arbs going the distance.
Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 44m
Biggest gaps: Masterson $3.75M, Bailey $2.9M, Fister $2.75M, Kimbrel/Trumbo $2.45M, Wieters $2.25M, Clippard/Freese $1.9M, Samardzija $1.8M.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/01/a ... +Rumors%29
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:47 pm
by stealthmode
prolly Rasmus will be the August 24th bobblehead now?
Re: Jays get 1yr deals with Rasmus, Cecil and Rogers
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:15 am
by duppyy
Hope we keep Rasmus. he's my favourite Jay.