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I vaguely remember him saying that this year and next year we would be competitors, which we werent last year. If AA loses again this year theres no way he has the support of the fan base anymore and I see no reason to keep a billy beane wannabe as a GM.

AA is a dead man walking. he got ahead of himself by making the mets and marlins trades.

syndergaard and d'arnaud would look real nice on this team. mlb network talks about how syndergaard could see the majors this year. money saved: 12 million for dickey

hech, alvarez, nicolino, desclafani, and marisnick would give the jays some nice depth. money saved: 35 million for reyes, buerhle

total saved: 47 million, 54 million in 2015

just say beeston and his cronies didn't have a 5 year cap and the jays went and got cano (10/240) and tanaka (7/155)...by SHEER coincidence those two contracts add up to 47 million

c: d'arnaud
1b: encarnacion
2nd: cano
3rd: lawrie
ss: hechavarria
lf: melky
cf: colby
rf: bats
dh: lind

would i rather have cano over reyes? for the simple reason of durability, yes.
would i rather have d'arnaud over navarro? for sheer upside, yes.
hech or goins? well, considering goins is a natural ss, they can duke it out for all i care.

sp: tanaka
sp: morrow
sp: alvarez
sp: happ
sp: the rest

when you consider the jays could have had kids like syndergaard and nicolino still in the system, i'd rather have this situation especially considering how dire the starting pitching looks again for the jays in 2014.

FrankGrimes wrote:AA is a dead man walking. he got ahead of himself by making the mets and marlins trades.

syndergaard and d'arnaud would look real nice on this team. mlb network talks about how syndergaard could see the majors this year. money saved: 12 million for dickey

hech, alvarez, nicolino, desclafani, and marisnick would give the jays some nice depth. money saved: 35 million for reyes, buerhle

total saved: 47 million, 54 million in 2015

just say beeston and his cronies didn't have a 5 year cap and the jays went and got cano (10/240) and tanaka (7/155)...by SHEER coincidence those two contracts add up to 47 million

c: d'arnaud
1b: encarnacion
2nd: cano
3rd: lawrie
ss: hechavarria
lf: melky
cf: colby
rf: bats
dh: lind

would i rather have cano over reyes? for the simple reason of durability, yes.
would i rather have d'arnaud over navarro? for sheer upside, yes.
hech or goins? well, considering goins is a natural ss, they can duke it out for all i care.

sp: tanaka
sp: morrow
sp: alvarez
sp: happ
sp: the rest

when you consider the jays could have had kids like syndergaard and nicolino still in the system, i'd rather have this situation especially considering how dire the starting pitching looks again for the jays in 2014.

I think you're in the wrong thread. The fantasy baseball one is a couple threads down.

And sorry to back seat mod here Schad, but I don't think this needs its own thread. I'd rather avoid being like the Raps board and having random posters who haven't been around in six months starting threads like it's the first time anyone has broached the subject. Let's keep it in the Spring Training thread.

[/quote]I think you're in the wrong thread. The fantasy baseball one is a couple threads down.

And sorry to back seat mod here Schad, but I don't think this needs its own thread. I'd rather avoid being like the Raps board and having random posters who haven't been around in six months starting threads like it's the first time anyone has broached the subject. Let's keep it in the Spring Training thread.[/quote]

i think you're being an ass.

the query posed by this thread is asking for an opinion on AA's status and whether or not he will get canned if the jays fail to make the playoffs which i answered right away. the following was to back up my claim that he's as good as gone already because he decided to "go for it" and mortgage his carefully cultivated future.

what exactly is fantasy about my post?

fantasy baseball? there is no mention of that anywhere on my post so i have to guess you're talking fantasy like unicorns and eskimos. in which case, it is NOT fantasy but hindsight. plain good ol' fashioned hindsight and i'm not afraid to admit that my post relied heavily on that. but fantasy? hardly.

oh, i get it. it's my fantasy wish that the jays instead signed cano and tanaka. well, considering the money the jays saved, they would have most likely spent it filling some holes. so pick your bunch of free agents and call it a day. let's say infante, ubaldo, and/or ervin. fantasy if toronto is a small market team but it's not fantasy to make a speculative guess on what holes the jays would fill based on a similar payroll as they have currently.

but i get it. you've made a bunch of posts so therefore you have the right to sit at your computer and act like a mod telling people what to post and where to post it. that's cool.

how about you make a constructive post, leave the mod'ing to those qualified or simply ignore the thread because all you did was come in here waving your stick and telling the thread poster he hasn't posted enough to start a proper thread and rambling about my post on the semantics of fantasy and whether or not this board will devolve into the raptors board (which by the way is offensive in its own right).

enjoy spring training.

Good insight Frank, its amazing to wonder about what this team could have been if not for those trades.... and I agree why you being a dick santoki ? Just because you posted here longer doesn't make you any more above me or anyone else were all equals unless your actually a mod which you are not.... so weather Im new here or not I can post relevant threads as long as it isnt spam.

welcome to the forum, big smoke.

while i think AA's demise started last year, i could go back a year further when the jays failed to sign up darvish which not looks like a bloody steal compared to what tanaka is getting.

i essentially see AA and beeston being the same entity running this team. listen to beeston tote the company line, listen to AA suddenly believe in the team he has assembled and you see a couple guys that know 2014 is a make or break year. don't even get me started on not signing a player more than 5 years...

being an eternal jays fan, i want to see them do well this year. but AA failed to address 2-3 massive holes in the lineup this winter. goins at second isn't exactly championship swagger. the jays could have made a move on omar infante but 23 million over 3 years was too much for a team making money hand over fist. not signing a starting pitcher is looking terrible early in the spring with happ blowing up worse than josh towers on a bad day and nobody outside of hutch showing he belongs in the rotation at all.

further evidence that this is a make or break year for AA would be to look at the payroll moving forward. after this year, you have melky, colby, casey, and lind (opt) leaving the team. let's assume AA survives and stands pat on free agents. you have closers in santos and delabar so let's leave that hole. lind at 7 million is a good deal even if he can't hit lefties. good luck replacing that bat with same or less money. gose/pillar/sierra in the outfield looks about as championship ready as...never.

bovada has the jays at 79.5 wins this year. reno has 77.5 wins. if the jays are going to fester in last place yet again, i'd rather see them concentrate on developing a young core. something like the red sox philosophy a la cherington.

Call it trial by fire for a new poster. I've seen enough Number15 threads to recognize how these things begin.

And Frank your entire post was hindsight at its best points and pure fantasy at its worst. You can't just sign Tanaka and Cano like it is MLB the Show and imagine what could have been.

The topic itself has been discussed countless times around here. At the beginning of the offseason the majority of posters wanted to wait to see how the offseason proceeded before forming an opinion. Now with the lack of moves I would venture most are on board with AAs departure if this team struggles again. There will still be some who will argue that he built the farm up so quickly in his first attempt that he should be given the opportunity to do so again. Hopefully by then he will have matured and become more patient when trying to seize on windows of opportunity. Others will argue that's not just up to AA as Beeston wields significant power and nothing will change until he goes. Either way, if things go as imagined this year, some heads are going to roll. If we're going to get rid of AA hopefully someone in charge packs Beestons bags along with his.

AA won't be fired as long as Beeston is in control. The real question you should be asking is whether Beeston will be fired if the Jays fail again.

I think AA will be fired if this team doesn't make the playoffs. If Beeston is an impediment to that outcome, he will be fired too in a package deal.

The reality is that at some point Beeston will have to save face and fire AA and spew more crap in attempts to salvage public perception of the Rogers ownership group and it's desire to win etc. It won't be for Alex doing a poor job as much as a PR move, someone has to be the fall guy unfortunately.

A caller asked Bob about Beeston on PTS the other day.

Yes

AA has shown he can Find Young Talent with the best of them. He even knows how to find a gem in a unharolded trade. However, he messed up the two biggest moves of his career last offseason.

I think he will be hired somewhere else easily as an assistant. Maybe #2 role under another GM for his skill at finding talent..... one day will be a GM again

Santoki wrote:Call it trial by fire for a new poster. I've seen enough Number15 threads to recognize how these things begin.

And Frank your entire post was hindsight at its best points and pure fantasy at its worst. You can't just sign Tanaka and Cano like it is MLB the Show and imagine what could have been.

The topic itself has been discussed countless times around here. At the beginning of the offseason the majority of posters wanted to wait to see how the offseason proceeded before forming an opinion. Now with the lack of moves I would venture most are on board with AAs departure if this team struggles again. There will still be some who will argue that he built the farm up so quickly in his first attempt that he should be given the opportunity to do so again. Hopefully by then he will have matured and become more patient when trying to seize on windows of opportunity. Others will argue that's not just up to AA as Beeston wields significant power and nothing will change until he goes. Either way, if things go as imagined this year, some heads are going to roll. If we're going to get rid of AA hopefully someone in charge packs Beestons bags along with his.

New posters, and old posters- everyone has a right to their opinion on how they feel about the team. Everyone knew my stance on trading two young solid prospects for a 39 year old Dickey last year, so need to rehash that. Bottom line is- this is AA's 5th year. If this team is not playing meaningful baseball in September- AA needs to be fired, and Gibbons needs to go as well. I agree with what you said. A more thorough house cleaning in the organization might be a good thing as well if this team duplicates the 2013 season. I have no problem with Beeston's bags be packed as well if this team struggles again.

Mehar wrote:

Santoki wrote:Call it trial by fire for a new poster. I've seen enough Number15 threads to recognize how these things begin.

And Frank your entire post was hindsight at its best points and pure fantasy at its worst. You can't just sign Tanaka and Cano like it is MLB the Show and imagine what could have been.

The topic itself has been discussed countless times around here. At the beginning of the offseason the majority of posters wanted to wait to see how the offseason proceeded before forming an opinion. Now with the lack of moves I would venture most are on board with AAs departure if this team struggles again. There will still be some who will argue that he built the farm up so quickly in his first attempt that he should be given the opportunity to do so again. Hopefully by then he will have matured and become more patient when trying to seize on windows of opportunity. Others will argue that's not just up to AA as Beeston wields significant power and nothing will change until he goes. Either way, if things go as imagined this year, some heads are going to roll. If we're going to get rid of AA hopefully someone in charge packs Beestons bags along with his.

New posters, and old posters- everyone has a right to their opinion on how they feel about the team. Everyone knew my stance on trading two young solid prospects for a 39 year old Dickey last year, so need to rehash that. Bottom line is- this is AA's 5th year. If this team is not playing meaningful baseball in September- AA needs to be fired, and Gibbons needs to go as well. I agree with what you said. A more thorough house cleaning in the organization might be a good thing as well if this team duplicates the 2013 season. I have no problem with Beeston's bags be packed as well if this team struggles again.

I wasn't saying they couldn't have their opinion, just voicing mine that it doesn't need a new thread (especially since he made the same point in the Spring Training thread). I'd just like it if this place didn't turn into the Raptors board where you have every (what seems like unique) thought become a new thread. I could have been nicer about it.

It's hard to deal with all the negativity in the springtime--the one time for Jays fans all season when we all get to have hope (delude ourselves?). This is in no way to refute the argument or dismiss the sentiments of disappointment that people are displaying in this thread or others (hell, I even agree in some instances), but sometimes it gets to be too much.

I think we all know that it's unlikely for certain facets of this team to necessarily go our way this year, and the arguments for why certain moves were made or not have been rehashed to death on this board. I think we all just want to start enjoying watching baseball for baseball right now, especially with this awful winter still hanging around.

I've decided to focus more on the nice young pieces we have and their growth--hopefully better things to come in the coming years. Hutch, Stroman, Sanchez and even (down the line) Osuna look to be parts of a winning squad eventually. Lawrie looks to be smacking the ball around and Sierra looks decent at the plate, anyway. It's been this long to wait for a winner--what's a few more?

the hope is that AA kept the right prospects. we all should know that prospects have a spectacular failure rate and some won't realize their potential until they are traded or gone from their original team. look at bautista and encarnacion as great examples of this. bautista was labelled by baseball prospectus as having the best power in the pittsburgh organization at one point and he realized that potential with the jays. encarnacion was always a bust out candidate waiting to happen and it happened with the jays.

the jays are loaded despite last winter's trades. the aforementioned sanchez, stroman, osuna, norris, smoral, tirado, and others give the blue jays a serious army of arms. i think they are doing the right thing and loading up on arms. hitters cost less than pitchers (if you factor in how many games they impact) so growing your own pitchers is a must in a league with no cap and plenty of big fish with deep pockets.

despite that, youreachiteach makes a salient point: "it's been this long to wait for a winner--what's a few more?"

that's exactly it. the blue jays under AA got young, they loaded up on prospects and basically forced mlb to change the amateur draft because of them. miguel olivo for what would eventually turn into kevin comer (now with the 'stros) comes to mind. it was agony for AA to part with nestor molina for sergio santos but i think he was buoyed by the result. even after the draft was rehauled to prevent teams like the jays from exploiting it, the jays did it again using the rounds from 4-10 to draft seniors only to go hard in the later rounds. ryan kellog from whitby was a nice example of that but he turned them down in order to up his stock for a future draft.

i understand what AA was trying to do. i don't blame him either. the blue jays are trying to win now and AA was eager to get that window open. the santos trade was just the first big move to bring mlb talent to the team after years of scooping up draft talent. the jays needed pitchers and happ was acquired. then came the blockbusters.

i'm just saying using hindsight, the blue jays could have assembled a very affordable set of pitchers to bridge the gap for the young guns without giving up prospects. darvish and ryu from asian would have cost the jays nothing but money and both contracts are looking very nice in the wake of the tanaka signing. the blue jays were all over the news for arms like chapman and darvish but they were gun shy about the money. well, that money looks well spent now and it's too late to exploit the international field. tanaka and abreu have set the new precedent for that.

i expect the window for AA and his quest to bring a winning team to the playoffs to close by 2016 at the very latest and more likely by the end of 2015 when melky, colby, and casey all become unrestricted.

i love my jays and i hope i'm wrong wrong wrong but they can't compete against the american league east after the yanks, sox and o's all improved themselves. the rays will be the rays. AA is a dead man walking by no fault other than he tried, and the east blew him away.

oh, and put on some damn socks beeston!

One thing AA has shown is that he does his homework about young prospects--and that his trades to get younger are very effective. So actually, in a roundabout way, if the Jays do the expected and fail this season, that might put us in a better position to trade some of the vets and get the rebuild process going--or simply to get some nice young vet in a bad situation and re-load for next year. We do have enough young pieces to rebound quicker than some others, and the pitching appears to be percolating now: Sanchez is getting close, too).

All in all, ,I expect him to be able to clear the decks, as it were, and leave us in a flexible situation going forward, whether he's fired eventually or not (I imagine he might be "re-assigned" rather than fired anyway).

Blue Jays wrote:AA has shown he can Find Young Talent with the best of them. He even knows how to find a gem in a unharolded trade.

Wouldn't you want him around for a rebuild then?

I'd rather let AA rebuild this team than hire someone else who is unlikely to have the same eye for talent.

His trades are only failures in hindsight. They were lauded at the time.

Looking back at it, no one saw this team it almost played as bad as we could of. Only worse could of been lose another 30 games. But we tried, I think this team will be better but playoffs I will be able with a wild card game.

his responsibility is mostly to improve the major league team, which he has failed miserably

could easily be said he has done little to nothing for the minors