Page 1 of 2
Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win?'
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:34 pm
by torontoaces04
“I guess the question is, did we really have the best 25 guys out of the gate? You know the guy’s going to come up in six weeks. What’s the difference?” Lind said.
“We never really had a set team,” Lind told the National Post. “It was like McGowan just filled the void for six weeks. And then you look at what we did in the outfield in September. Were we really trying to win? But I guess every team goes through that, trying to figure things out. April’s probably a big feeler month for a lot of teams. But why didn’t Marcus make the team out of camp? We all knew he was going to come anyway.”
http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/589479
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:53 pm
by Tyrone Slothrop
Goooooood questions Lindy.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:19 pm
by Randle McMurphy
Still funny that Lind is the first one to ask this question, not the media.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:30 am
by torontoaces04
Randle McMurphy wrote:Still funny that Lind is the first one to ask this question, not the media.
Sad, I know. Perhaps it is because the media owns the team?? I'm surprised TSN doesn't take more shots at Rogers, for the way that it has run the Jays. I think they are just scared of shedding too much light upon themselves as well, for being terrible (partial) owners over at MLSE.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:56 am
by Waylon Mercy
Randle McMurphy wrote:Still funny that Lind is the first one to ask this question, not the media.
Zaun is the only one if you count him as media and all the fan boys rip on him for it. Feschuck and
Steve Simmons are also guys who've called out Toronto teams in the past but people get mad at
them for it and call them hacks.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:12 am
by Randle McMurphy
Waylon Mercy wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Still funny that Lind is the first one to ask this question, not the media.
Zaun is the only one if you count him as media and all the fan boys rip on him for it. Feschuck and
Steve Simmons are also guys who've called out Toronto teams in the past but people get mad at
them for it and call them hacks.
It isn't even just calling them out (which rarely happens too). It's asking them why they didn't bother trying to win games in a month where they were 3-4 games out of the playoffs for much of it (you don't play scrubs like Gose/Pillar over Rasmus otherwise).
After the Cubs sweep on Setember 10th, it looks like all the Jays would have needed to do to get in a WC play-in was go 11-6 in the last 17. Not likely, but well within the realm of possibility.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:20 am
by Geddy
I mentioned in another thread but the sports media in this city sucks. It's basically just an old boys club of guys happy to have their jobs covering the teams that they have been assigned to. No one dares call out anything because they are too scared of being out of that little inner circle of theirs.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:07 pm
by whysoserious
I can't even imagine what it's like to be a reporter these days.
It goes beyond sports media, all these reporters work for papers that are owned by larger companies that own the teams they are covering. You are basically taking shots at your own boss if you write anything negative. They are basically bought and paid for reporters that are more promotion and marketing than reporting.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:16 pm
by Lateral Quicks
whysoserious wrote:I can't even imagine what it's like to be a reporter these days.
It goes beyond sports media, all these reporters work for papers that are owned by larger companies that own the teams they are covering. You are basically taking shots at your own boss if you write anything negative. They are basically bought and paid for reporters that are more promotion and marketing than reporting.
Bang on. That's why it's more important than ever to have a strong national broadcaster that isn't beholden to any corporate or political masters. Unfortunately Harper has been cutting CBC funding over the last decade, and staffing its management with political stooges.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:14 pm
by Tyrone Slothrop
Waylon Mercy wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Still funny that Lind is the first one to ask this question, not the media.
Zaun is the only one if you count him as media and all the fan boys rip on him for it. Feschuck and
Steve Simmons are also guys who've called out Toronto teams in the past but people get mad at
them for it and call them hacks.
Fair point, but I think it's because they are unable to both call out Toronto teams
and sound intelligent. Simmons trying to fight advanced stats in hockey last season was particularly hilarious and awful.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:54 pm
by Wo1verine
I loved how AA again mentioned during his presser that this organization will still indeed continue the 5-year policy with regards free agents.
If only a media member had the balls to ask AA why he felt necessary to have such a policy like this one when you haven't made the playoffs since 93.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:11 pm
by Randle McMurphy
Wo1verine wrote:I loved how AA again mentioned during his presser that this organization will still indeed continue the 5-year policy with regards free agents.
If only a media member had the balls to ask AA why he felt necessary to have such a policy like this one when you haven't made the playoffs since 93.
I've never thought of it as a real policy, it's just a ready-made excuse not to sign FAs due to the amount of money they cost (as you could easily offer top FAs the same amount of money over 5 years if money truly wasn't the issue).
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:37 pm
by Marmoset
Waylon Mercy wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Still funny that Lind is the first one to ask this question, not the media.
Zaun is the only one if you count him as media and all the fan boys rip on him for it. Feschuck and
Steve Simmons are also guys who've called out Toronto teams in the past but people get mad at
them for it and call them hacks.
Feschuk does nothing besides call people out and bash everything and everyone, so he's just as bad as the ones who are never critical IMO. But the overall point is valid; the Raptors and Leafs seem to take much more flack even when they put out teams that are having more success.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:25 am
by whysoserious
Randle McMurphy wrote:Wo1verine wrote:I loved how AA again mentioned during his presser that this organization will still indeed continue the 5-year policy with regards free agents.
If only a media member had the balls to ask AA why he felt necessary to have such a policy like this one when you haven't made the playoffs since 93.
I've never thought of it as a real policy, it's just a ready-made excuse not to sign FAs due to the amount of money they cost (as you could easily offer top FAs the same amount of money over 5 years if money truly wasn't the issue).
Yes, but it's such a dishonest way to treat your fans, we're going to look at free agents but we won't go over 5 years for anyone. So basically you're saying we won't ever sign a major player from free agency then.
I get the rationale behind such a policy, but then you can't compete with anyone to sign a major player. And sure, there' s other ways to get guys and sometimes those secondary players can have an impact, but it's completely dishonest that this organization continues to sell one thing and do something counter to that and like we've been saying the media won't call them out on it.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:26 am
by Santoki
whysoserious wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Wo1verine wrote:I loved how AA again mentioned during his presser that this organization will still indeed continue the 5-year policy with regards free agents.
If only a media member had the balls to ask AA why he felt necessary to have such a policy like this one when you haven't made the playoffs since 93.
I've never thought of it as a real policy, it's just a ready-made excuse not to sign FAs due to the amount of money they cost (as you could easily offer top FAs the same amount of money over 5 years if money truly wasn't the issue).
Yes, but it's such a dishonest way to treat your fans, we're going to look at free agents but we won't go over 5 years for anyone. So basically you're saying we won't ever sign a major player from free agency then.
I get the rationale behind such a policy, but then you can't compete with anyone to sign a major player. And sure, there' s other ways to get guys and sometimes those secondary players can have an impact, but it's completely dishonest that this organization continues to sell one thing and do something counter to that and like we've been saying the media won't call them out on it.
People keep falling for it. We're not a smart town.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:29 am
by Waylon Mercy
Marmoset wrote:Waylon Mercy wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Still funny that Lind is the first one to ask this question, not the media.
Zaun is the only one if you count him as media and all the fan boys rip on him for it. Feschuck and
Steve Simmons are also guys who've called out Toronto teams in the past but people get mad at
them for it and call them hacks.
Feschuk does nothing besides call people out and bash everything and everyone, so he's just as bad as the ones who are never critical IMO. But the overall point is valid; the Raptors and Leafs seem to take much more flack even when they put out teams that are having more success.
Being a reporter for the last 15 years or so in this town shouldn't he be? It's been a sports hell hole
for awhile. Is he being critical on purpose or has it been the reality of the situation?
And you make a good point the Raps and Leafs get way more flack than the Blue Jays. For years I've
noticed the BJ's have been on a pedestal. The media and the hardcore fans refuse to be critical and
will even lash out at anyone who is. Probably has a lot to do with winning those 2 World Series,
playing in the AL East and the fact that the Jays are never horrible other than the odd year.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:08 pm
by StringerBell
Lind must be really butt hurt platooning. Really have to wonder if he's pushing himself out the door.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:19 pm
by satyr9
I'm sorry, but I don't get it, why were these good questions? Why wasn't Stroman in the opening day rotation? Really? That's a good question? 'cause he'd pitched at AA and didn't blow anyone away in camp. This is hardly earth-shattering news unless one chooses to only remember back as far as his first professional start. Lind's question actually answered why McGowan at all, which was certainly my question at the beginning of the year, namely that the team was high enough on Stroman to hold a spot for him for when he would be ready, although his little foray into the 'pen seems to suggest that's a flight of fancy too.
Forget that giving him some AAA may have actually helped prepare him for the big leagues, there's also the fact that nobody but the stupidest GMs waste a cheap year of elite prospects by playing them every day in April and May of their rookie year. So even in revisionist land where Stroman is this hotshot has to start prospect that we held back 'til June for financial concerns, which never **** happened, it's a financial concern that absolutely every team on the planet would abide, even the Yankees will prefer that set-up.
And while I know how much it angered Randle, the Colby benching is not a signal of anything. We were more than 5 games out with 4 teams to pass on Sep 1st, the season was over. Not to mention, Colby's angst had already become a public issue, one can extrapolate quite fairly that it likely went into the clubhouse too, and he got publicly benched 'cause he was playing poorly, had no chance at the playoffs (okay, a 1.3% chance) and had two open OF spots for next season with many questionable kids to audition.
The team then won a whole bunch of games without Colby in the lineup, making things borderline interesting for a couple weeks, which actually speaks to it being a good competitive decision to bench the guy, before finally having a single bad series that turned out the lights.
Even if it's 5 WAR Colby for 0 WAR Gose, Colby gives you 5-6 extra runs over September, equating to maybe an extra win if it happens at the right time. Sitting him down 'cause he's being disruptive is hardly some signal that the Jays don't care about winning, especially when the timing of it was reinforced by the club's reaction.
Lind is doing what everyone does, the shoulda coulda woulda, but it's not even remotely accurate and the Stroman part especially is completely absurd. If the Jays had thrown Hutch off TJ and Stroman into the rotation it would've looked like a team giving up from day one.
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:36 pm
by freakoutguy
I agree with Satyr9.
Lind is known for saying the most ridiculous things. Yesterday, Gibbons mentioned on PTS with McCown and Brunt that this was not a tight knit group and he would like to see some fresh faces. Of the core players, you are not getting rid of EE, Bats, Lawrie, Reyes, Navarro, the young pitchers. We know that Colby's gone, Janssen's gone (both of these have been vocal about their displeasure with the status quo), so is Lind's contract is something that they would try trading for to fill in some of the other gaps in infiild and outfield
Re: Lind questions management: 'Were we really trying to win
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:08 pm
by Randle McMurphy
satyr9 wrote:And while I know how much it angered Randle, the Colby benching is not a signal of anything. We were more than 5 games out with 4 teams to pass on Sep 1st, the season was over. Not to mention, Colby's angst had already become a public issue, one can extrapolate quite fairly that it likely went into the clubhouse too, and he got publicly benched 'cause he was playing poorly, had no chance at the playoffs (okay, a 1.3% chance) and had two open OF spots for next season with many questionable kids to audition.
This is, of course, utter nonsense. Playoffs were obviously very unlikely at that point, but the season was not over. It would have required a 19-7 month of September to get into the WC game, but teams go on stretches like that all the time. In fact, this very team accomplished pretty much the same feat in May (21-9). Even if the chance was remote, there was no good argument not to put the best lineup on the field with an entire sixth of the season left (and considering the replacements that still certainly involved Colby).
The Jays' puzzling lineup decisions also went way beyond just benching Rasmus for two scrubs that have no place starting games full-time in MLB. The team went an entire month starting a career platoon player at 3rd (Valencia) full-time for no good reason. And this isn't even getting into the way Gibbons inexplicably started managing the games in a way unlike he ever has before (odd bullpen changes, a failure to play the matchups, lack of platooning and pinch hitting when appropriate, etc.).
I'm usually the first one to rip on Lind for whatever stupid thing he says, but on this point, he's right on the mark. Management stopped trying to win at the end of August. You don't play guys like Pillar/Gose/Valencia otherwise if you are.