RealGM

Last year the bullpen was one of the team's Achilles' heels; particularly outside a couple key players. So from last year's bullpen what do we have:

Gone:
Jannson 45 innings, 3.92 ERA
McGowan 43 innings, 3.35 ERA (relief innings)
Sanches 33 innings, 1.05 ERA (because he will be starting)
Santos 21 innings, 8.57 ERA!
Rodgers 21 innings, 6.91 ERA

Comments: Santos, Rogers. I wouldn't be completely surprised to see Jannson or McGowan come back at lower prices.

Remaining:
Redmond 75 innings, 3.24 ERA
Loup 68 innings, 3.15 ERA
Cecil 53 innings, 2.70 ERA
Delebar 25 innings, 4.91 ERA
Jenkins 23 innings, 2.56 ERA

That's it. We have some good guys but no depth and not enough numbers to make up anything close to a bullpen.

Delebar was a dumpster fire after having 2 really good seasons for us so I included him since he's on the 40 man roster and he has options still. I also inclued Jenkins because he was the 8th man in our bullpen last year and he'll probably stick this year. We have some guys in the minors like Rassmuson but nobody who's going to make the jump full time yet.

There's an obvious need for a "closer" and at least 3 other regular serviceable relievers. I don't see them moving Cecil and Loup to the closer role or they would have announced it.

With probably 14-16 million to spend on those 4 spots where do you think they're going to go?


*edit* AA told Richard Griffin that he has 2 spots to fill in the bullpen. That crystalizes that a bit.

I like Gregerson and maybe bringing back Jannson.

Although, given how AA has operated so far this offseason with trades over outright signings I think another reliever will be picked up by moving Navarro. I know that nobody likes Thole but he can continue as a backup C for 30 odd games since he is here for Dickey anyway.

Also, with the question marks about whether Sanchez is going to be the 5th starter isn't it possible for him or Norris to be in the pen as well?

Forgot about Estrada. I also don't think Sanchez is guaranteed to start. 1. He still has to prove he can get the job done and 2. I am really hoping we will be getting an Ace through Free agency.

I would consider bringing back Jansen and McGowan. I'm not as worried about the bullpen as some. I just think these things are a little less predictable. Guys in the bullpen often come back after an off year so I think Delabar and Jansen may work out. Ideally you have lots of depth so you can see who is pitching well and work accordingly. That's the value of having Jenkins, Delabar, etc. You can keep them in the minors as depth guys if someone else falters (or they can earn their spot in the Spring). It would be nice to have a bonafide closer, but I would WAY rather spend the money on a SP.

Guys to consider in the bullpen:

Locks:
Cecil
Loup
Redmond

Currently on 25 man:
Estrada

Possible:
Sanchez
Norris

Depth:
Jenkins
Delabar
Rasmussen
Drabek
Hendricks
Romero (pipe dream, but I can dream)

FA:
Jansen
McGowan

Lots of options. There is usually one internal option that will surprise. This year I'm betting on Drabek.

we probably need 1 of these guys at least,

miller
gregerson
krod
romo
soriano
jansen
grilli

IMO the deal with Sanchez, Norris, and Estrada is this: They're the 5/6/7 starters with one in the opening day rotation, one in the bullpen, and one in AAA, and camp will determine who goes where. I assume Estrada is unlikely to be the AAA one and Norris is unlikely to be the 'pen option, but far stranger things than those outcomes have emerged from a camp before.

Obviously my preference is Estrada in the 'pen and the other two start. I guess I can live with some kind Sanchez transitional period, but it reeks of what happened to Roldy and Neftali and the same kind of ping-ponging played some role in Morrow's development issues. I would much rather start and start and start pitching prospects until they can't start anymore, not use the MLB 'pen as a way to try and develop and build innings, 'cause in recent history it has not worked. That being said, I'm also completely on board letting Sanchez and Norris battle it out as 5/6 in camp with the winner going to TOR and the loser to BUF. Based on the limited stuff I saw, they're both ready to be challenged that much, but it's good to have an out in case there's a speed bump, which is all Estrada is. He's insurance.

As for the rest of the 'pen, I still think anyone due to make more than 7ish AAV has virtually no chance of signing in the Jays 'pen. Maybe AA has a 7-9m AAV type included in the budget to be THE CLOSER, but I doubt it. Certainly there's no 12-15 for Robertson or whatever nonsense Miller wants. I also think that if he were to go above 6AAV it'd be two years max. Far more likely this one is where he'll have to take his time. Let the market get set and let a few guys realize there aren't enough chairs for their UFA bonanza. Hopefully you get a Madson-style albeit non-Boras bargain, with a better outcome too, and 1-2 more vet arms to fill in the depth. If we had Cecil plus a RH for high leverage, then we just need our current options and 1-2 2-4m type lottery tickets and I would hope we could find one more. 3 High leverage is really all it takes and stop worrying about THE CLOSER.

dballislife wrote:we probably need 1 of these guys at least,

miller
gregerson
krod
romo
soriano
jansen
grilli

don't forget Jason motte. he's a risky pick up but did well in st Louis. nice buy low type arm. a one year deal could easily bring him in while he tries to re-establish his market value.

pat neshek is another name. coming off a career year, he'll probably want bank but he's another potentially useful arm.

bow low on Rafael Soriano... sign him as your 8th inning guy, so theres little risk, but i bet he takes over the 9th by May

Casey Janssen doesn't seem to be getting talked about too much! I wouldn't mind him back on a respectable deal

I, for one, don't trust Janssen after the way he finished last year. He was always smoke and mirrors anyway, and now's probably the perfect time to part ways. jmho.

I think it's inevitable that at some point this season we'll see Sanchez in the bullpen even if his primary role on the roster will be (hopefully) as a starter.I think they'll be closely monitoring his innings and because of this fact there will be a few instances during the year that we'll see him miss a start here and there and also see some duty as a reliever (albeit limited).

Stilson is another option. The organization was pretty high on him until he got injured.

We have plenty of quantity in the organization already, but we could certainly use more proven quality.

We need three relievers rather than two, methinks. I'd be okay with bringing McGowan back at a reduced rate, signing Jason Grilli to be a back-end option, and adding another solid arm (Neshek, Cotts, etc), while using the Rule 5 draft to pick up some decent-upside fireballers. That'd make for a pretty useful bullpen, and would leave a fair bit of money to pursue a starting pitcher.

Schad you should be working for the Toronto Blue Jays.

Estrada starting the season with anything close to acceptable but expect to fail numbers will happen with Sanchez saving the day in May....

Back2back2back wrote:Schad you should be working for the Toronto Blue Jays.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using RealGM Forums mobile app

mlb.com saying chapman could be on the block.

Jason Motte could be maybe be an interesting buy low option as well.

Was lights out couple years back and doesn't figure to demand a large contract.

He's got an impressive beard to boot!

I would have wagered that the blue jays wouldn't ante up for big dollar pen arms like miller and Robertson.

really wanted hochevar but he's resigned with the royals.

gregerson should be a priority but I too really think motte could be a nice buy low arm.

motte's beard > lind's beard

There are a lot of free agent options out there that are either buy lows or decent short-term signings. Grilli, Crain, Neshek, Gregerson, Motte, Joba, Ogando, etc. The Jays could conceivably sign two or three of those guys for less than what Robertson got by himself. They already have a "bullpen ace" type of reliever who they may not fully appreciate yet (Cecil) so they don't need to overpay for anyone. Just bring in some good relievers and put them in spots where they can succeed. Everyone wants what the Royals had last season, but relievers are so volatile that it's pointless to try to make that happen. Some times it could happen organically without spending a fortune on it.

FrankGrimes wrote:mlb.com saying chapman could be on the block.

that be sick but jays probly have to give up something good.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using RealGM Forums mobile app