Most underrated trade: Lind for Estrada

Rbk_3 · Post #1 » by **Rbk_3** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 4:38 am

Looking like that one has really paid off.

I know I as well as a lot of you were pissed early in the season with that one.

Post #2 » by **Rhettmatic** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 4:41 am

Lind is having a pretty great season too, because he's annoying.

Rbk_3 · Post #3 » by **Rbk_3** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 5:03 am

It's really a win win.

We don't need his bat. Right now we would be starting God knows who instead of him.

DonYon · Post #4 » by **DonYon** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 5:45 am

with all our right handed hitters he would have been very useful, but hard to argue with what Estrada's doing in the rotation

bluerap23 · Post #5 » by **bluerap23** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 2:26 pm

You could definitely make the argument that we would be well back of where we are now without him. Our rotation would have been significantly weaker. And we wouldn't have been in position to go all in so those trades wouldn't have happened.

Al_Oliver · Post #6 » by **Al_Oliver** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 2:30 pm

Smoak is a far better fielder and between him & Estarada, they make substantially less than Sleepy (Lind)... worked out well for both teams

hyper316 · Post #7 » by **hyper316** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 6:37 pm

Estrada surprised a lo of us. But I think this is pretty much cancelled out by the Happ-Saunders trade. I know we saved some money and spent it elsewhere. We knew Saunders was recovering from injury

LLJ · Post #8 » by **LLJ** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 6:54 pm

Many people still overrate velocity, but the fact is you won't steal many pitchers out there who have great command and velocity--those are usually true aces and nobody ever lets them go cheap. It's usually a choice between soft throwers with good command or hard throwers with wildly inconsistent command. The perceived upside of the latter is obviously more enticing, but it seems like we've been burned much more often with hard throwing guys who are inconsistent as compared to soft (ish) throwers with good command.

Post #9 » by **TheDoctor** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 7:16 pm

His changeup is just beautiful to watch, and going from a Hughes-esque HR rate to keeping the ball in the park has been massive. Really nice story for a guy many were demanding we keep in long relief (and whose numbers last year encouraged us to do.)

North_of_Border · Post #10 » by **North_of_Border** » Wed Aug 5, 2015 9:48 pm

hyper316 wrote:Estrada surprised a lo of us. But I think this is pretty much cancelled out by the Happ-Saunders trade. I know we saved some money and spent it elsewhere. We knew Saunders was recovering from injury

Unlike most other people, AA at the time said he viewed Estrada as a starter.

They also had high hopes for Sanchez, Stroman and Hutch to break through.

Thus there wouldnt have been a Estrada trade if Happ was dealt previously. There wouldnt have been any room in the rotation.

I guesd it all worked out.

Rbk_3 · Post #11 » by **Rbk_3** » Sun Aug 9, 2015 8:20 pm

I would just like to reiterate this point.

North_of_Border · Post #12 » by **North_of_Border** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:11 am

Rbk_3 wrote:I would just like to reiterate this point.

it has been reiterated...

dballislife · Post #13 » by **dballislife** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:23 am

Estrada is just a great vet arm, doesn't throw hard, hits d corners, up and down in strike zone, throws strikes with all pitches and mixes different speeds

TorontoRaptures · Post #14 » by **TorontoRaptures** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:34 am

How much will it cost to keep Estrada going forwards? He's a very crafty pitcher and he's performed extremely well this year as a starter.

Lateral Quicks · Post #15 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:39 am

He's still giving up the same percentage of fly balls as last year, but his HR/FB% has been roughly cut in half. Given the move to AL East, I consider that a small miracle. Right now his HR/9 is below 1 at 0.9; if he keeps that up, it will be the first time in his career he's done so, and arguably under the toughest circumstances.

It's hard to say how he's doing it, whether it's just blind luck, improved control, or something else. But we're extremely fortunate he's doing it. This version of Estrada is much more valuable to this team than Lind would have been. Lind has the higher WAR, but the difference between Smoak/Colabello and Lind at 1B/DH is less than the difference between 2015 Estrada and the Copelands/Francii/Wolfs of the world.

Rbk_3 · Post #16 » by **Rbk_3** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:11 am

This is a good a time as any for a bump, IMHO.

:nod:

UN-Owen · Post #17 » by **UN-Owen** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:43 am

Was the Happ trade made before or after Estrada was acquired?

Fairview4Life · Post #18 » by **Fairview4Life** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:58 am

UN-Owen wrote:Was the Happ trade made before or after Estrada was acquired?

Lind for Estrada was about a month before the Happ for Saunders trade. Estrada was supposed to be a long relief guy though.

North_of_Border · Post #19 » by **North_of_Border** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:18 am

Lind woulda only made this monster offense even scarier..... But that was not the need. Colabelo is better overall hitter than Lind anyway and Smoak the better fielder.

If the Jays dont have Estrada this season, things would not have played out as they did. He was our #5 guy but pitched like a #3 consistantly.... In the playoffs he's an Ace.

Steelo Green · Post #20 » by **Steelo Green** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:53 am

North_of_Border wrote:Lind woulda only made this monster offense even scarier..... But that was not the need. Colabelo is better overall hitter than Lind anyway and Smoak the better fielder.

If the Jays dont have Estrada this season, things would not have played out as they did. He was our #5 guy but pitched like a #3 consistantly.... In the playoffs he's an Ace.

We wouldn't be in the playoffs if we didn't make this deal.