Shapiro will be next Jays President

tempests_dawn · Post #1 » by **tempests_dawn** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:22 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/638151065280610306[/tweet]

Raptor_Guy · Post #2 » by **Raptor_Guy** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:24 am

Will he get rid of the 5 year rule?

The Flying Gent · Post #3 » by **The Flying Gent** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:40 am

He intends to keep AA

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25285269/sources-jays-to-name-mark-shapiro-club-president-replacing-beeston

Jays4WS · Post #4 » by **Jays4WS** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:52 am

Raptor_Guy wrote:Will he get rid of the 5 year rule?

I would hope so. Rogers is getting a first hand look at what happens when you go out and spend / get stars.

JoeBarryCaroll · Post #5 » by **JoeBarryCaroll** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:27 am

WOW...I feel bad for you guys. Mark Shapiro sucks eggs!

Guy inherited a juggernaut and turned it into a clown show. Indians were a powerhouse with a 450+ game sell-out streak in the late 90's early 2000's and now they have the lowest attendance in AL, 2nd lowest in all MLB and tons of losing seasons.

Brace yourselves for the worst.

North_of_Border · Post #6 » by **North_of_Border** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:47 am

JoeBarryCaroll wrote:WOW...I feel bad for you guys. Mark Shapiro sucks eggs!

Guy inherited a juggernaut and turned it into a clown show. Indians were a powerhouse with a 450+ game sell-out streak in the late 90's early 2000's and now they have the lowest attendance in AL, 2nd lowest in all MLB and tons of losing seasons.

Brace yourselves for the worst.

Cleveland is a big city, but the Cleveland Indians operate like a small market team. They have one of the lowest payrolls in the MLB. $80 million. Yet Shapiro has done a good job with limited resources. They have a strong young core for what they are paying.

Also in Toronto, AA will be the experienced Baseball guy. Shapiro is the buisness side guy. He will renovate the Dome, make operational decisions, like the 5 year contract rule etc...

I thinm the Jays are in good hands.

Jays4WS · Post #7 » by **Jays4WS** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:53 am

JoeBarryCaroll wrote:WOW...I feel bad for you guys. Mark Shapiro sucks eggs!

Guy inherited a juggernaut and turned it into a clown show. Indians were a powerhouse with a 450+ game sell-out streak in the late 90's early 2000's and now they have the lowest attendance in AL, 2nd lowest in all MLB and tons of losing seasons.

Brace yourselves for the worst.

We have missed the playoffs for 22 straight years. We have already lived through the worst until this year.

dagger · Post #8 » by **dagger** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:53 am

JoeBarryCaroll wrote:Brace yourselves for the worst.

Twenty two years without playoffs, we've been there already.

JoeBarryCaroll · Post #9 » by **JoeBarryCaroll** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:30 am

The AL East is consistently the best division in all of baseball so it is super tough to win the division or even make the playoffs unless you are the NYY or Bosox.

Shapiro took over a terrific organization that previously dominated the arguably weakest division in baseball and he has overseen only 4 winning seasons in 14 years since taking over. His drafting has been absolutely awful.

If he sticks to just ops and doesn't get involved in the baseball side who knows, maybe it will work. That said, I don't think there will be any Chinese-wall between him and your GM/Baseball operations. Also, is it something to celebrate when you hire a President and hope he stays out of the most important aspect of your organization??

Also, regarding your stadium, bear in mind that Shap just oversaw the removal of thousands of seats in right field replacing them with giant concrete boxes that have billboards on them. It's shocking. 15-20 years ago the Indians were adding seats almost every offseason due to the consecutive sell-outs. Now they are removing seats due to awful attendance. It's a travesty.

It's going to take a good 3-5 years to fully see the impact of this hire. I doubt it goes well but you never know. If AA is a really strong baseball guy, if you have great scouting and player development and if Shapiro doesn't get involved in those things it may work out. Even with your somewhat larger budget (vs Dolan's Cleveland Indians) you still won't be able to compete with the Yankees or Boston unless your scouting, drafting and development are a lot better than Shap's teams in Cleveland.

I like the Jays a lot better than the Yankees or Bosox so I hope it goes well for you but I have low expectations.

s e n s i · Post #10 » by **s e n s i** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:38 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Dudgee/status/638144877121810432[/tweet]

Raps in 4 · Post #11 » by **Raps in 4** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:06 am

JoeBarryCaroll wrote:you still won't be able to compete with the Yankees or Boston unless your scouting, drafting and development are a lot better than Shap's teams in Cleveland.

They are if AA is left alone.

Post #12 » by **Geddy** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:27 am

Weren't there rumors about him joining the team since last winter? I'm having some serious deja vu with this thread.

Mehar · Post #13 » by **Mehar** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:38 am

Raptor_Guy wrote:Will he get rid of the 5 year rule?

Hopefully that is history now. Also hoping Shapiro can possibly come in and convince Rogers to open up their purse strings a lot more, and boost its payroll to keep this team intact.

SharoneWright · Post #14 » by **SharoneWright** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:53 am

Question: Who identified Shapiro as the target?

After anyone is approached, my guess is the Rogers board up-votes the guy. I'm certain they would have hired Dombrowski if he wanted the job. So, whoever head-hunts Shapiro is really the one setting the course for the Blue Jays.

-MetA4- · Post #15 » by **-MetA4-** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:32 am

JoeBarryCaroll wrote:The AL East is consistently the best division in all of baseball so it is super tough to win the division or even make the playoffs unless you are the NYY or Bosox.

Shapiro took over a terrific organization that previously dominated the arguably weakest division in baseball and he has overseen only 4 winning seasons in 14 years since taking over. His drafting has been absolutely awful.

If he sticks to just ops and doesn't get involved in the baseball side who knows, maybe it will work. That said, I don't think there will be any Chinese-wall between him and your GM/Baseball operations. Also, is it something to celebrate when you hire a President and hope he stays out of the most important aspect of your organization??

Also, regarding your stadium, bear in mind that Shap just oversaw the removal of thousands of seats in right field replacing them with giant concrete boxes that have billboards on them. It's shocking. 15-20 years ago the Indians were adding seats almost every offseason due to the consecutive sell-outs. Now they are removing seats due to awful attendance. It's a travesty.

It's going to take a good 3-5 years to fully see the impact of this hire. I doubt it goes well but you never know. If AA is a really strong baseball guy, if you have great scouting and player development and if Shapiro doesn't get involved in those things it may work out. Even with your somewhat larger budget (vs Dolan's Cleveland Indians) you still won't be able to compete with the Yankees or Boston unless your scouting, drafting and development are a lot better than Shap's teams in Cleveland.

I like the Jays a lot better than the Yankees or Bosox so I hope it goes well for you but I have low expectations.

You are so wrong its not even funny.

Indians fans are in for a rude awakening when they see what their replacement does. Shapiro is one of the most highly regarded executives in the game, for a reason.

He ruined a terrific organization? Larry Dolan bought the Indians in 2000, and Shapiro was hired as GM in 2001. Since then he has been performing wizardry juggling a bottom-5 payroll team, because the Dolan's are bottom-feeder owners.

Is your fanbase so deluded that you actually think you're going to find a better exec than Shapiro to run one of the poorest teams in the game?

-MetA4- · Post #16 » by **-MetA4-** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:58 am

"While the Indians' player salaries were among the highest in Major League Baseball during Jacobs' last years as owner, at times they have been among the lowest under Dolan"

Cleveland Indians Payroll standing League-wide:

1998: 6th ($59,543,165)
1999: 4th ($73,278,458)
2000 : 8th ($75,880,871) **Ownership changes
2001: 5th ($91,974,979) **Shapiro hired as GM
2002: 9th ($78,909,448)
2003: 26th ($48,584,834)
2004: 27th ($34,569,300)
2005: 26th ($41,830,400) **Shapiro named Executive of the Year (90+ win season)
2006: 25th ($56,031,500)
2007: 23rd ($61,673,267) **Shapiro named Executive of the Year (90+ win season, AL Central Champ)
2008: 16th ($78,970,066)
2009: 15th ($81,625,567)
2010: 24th ($61,203,967)
2011: 26th ($49,188,867) **Shapiro promoted to Team President
2012: 21st ($78,430,300)
2013: 21st ($77,772,800)
2014: 26th ($82,534,800)
2015: 26th ($86,091,175)

He ruined a terrific organization? LOL.

Kinger95 · Post #17 » by **Kinger95** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:09 am

Out of all the numbers that pop out I still can't wrap my head around how you go from 90mill to a 35 mill payroll only 3 years later!!!!

Randle McMurphy · Post #18 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:33 am

Raps in 4 wrote:
JoeBarryCaroll wrote:you still won't be able to compete with the Yankees or Boston unless your scouting, drafting and development are a lot better than Shap's teams in Cleveland.

They are if AA is left alone.

The real question here, with Rogers bringing in a president to undercut him and take the #1 spot in baseball ops, is whether AA would even want to stay past this year. We'll find out soon enough.

-MetA4- · Post #19 » by **-MetA4-** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:40 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:The real question after bringing in a president to undercut him and take the #1 spot in baseball ops is whether AA would even want to stay past this year. We'll find out at the end of the season.

Shapiro has let Antonetti make virtually all "baseball moves" over the past ~2-3 years. This isn't a case like Dombrowski wherein the new guy wants to essentially be both GM and President; Shapiro has already shown that he is willing to take a secondary seat in "baseball operations".

JoeBarryCaroll · Post #20 » by **JoeBarryCaroll** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:18 am

-MetA4- wrote:
JoeBarryCaroll wrote:The AL East is consistently the best division in all of baseball so it is super tough to win the division or even make the playoffs unless you are the NYY or Bosox.

Shapiro took over a terrific organization that previously dominated the arguably weakest division in baseball and he has overseen only 4 winning seasons in 14 years since taking over. His drafting has been absolutely awful.

If he sticks to just ops and doesn't get involved in the baseball side who knows, maybe it will work. That said, I don't think there will be any Chinese-wall between him and your GM/Baseball operations. Also, is it something to celebrate when you hire a President and hope he stays out of the most important aspect of your organization??

Also, regarding your stadium, bear in mind that Shap just oversaw the removal of thousands of seats in right field replacing them with giant concrete boxes that have billboards on them. It's shocking. 15-20 years ago the Indians were adding seats almost every offseason due to the consecutive sell-outs. Now they are removing seats due to awful attendance. It's a travesty.

It's going to take a good 3-5 years to fully see the impact of this hire. I doubt it goes well but you never know. If AA is a really strong baseball guy, if you have great scouting and player development and if Shapiro doesn't get involved in those things it may work out. Even with your somewhat larger budget (vs Dolan's Cleveland Indians) you still won't be able to compete with the Yankees or Boston unless your scouting, drafting and development are a lot better than Shap's teams in Cleveland.

I like the Jays a lot better than the Yankees or Bosox so I hope it goes well for you but I have low expectations.

You are so wrong its not even funny.

Indians fans are in for a rude awakening when they see what their replacement does. Shapiro is one of the most highly regarded executives in the game, for a reason.

He ruined a terrific organization? Larry Dolan bought the Indians in 2000, and Shapiro was hired as GM in 2001. Since then he has been performing wizardry juggling a bottom-5 payroll team, because the Dolan's are bottom-feeder owners.

Is your fanbase so deluded that you actually think you're going to find a better exec than Shapiro to run one of the poorest teams in the game?

I think living in London and based on your warped information you must not know much about baseball or the Indians history.

The bottom 5 payroll was created by Shapiro and the Dolans. The Jacobs consistently had a top 5-10 payroll in all of baseball.

Dolan inherited a top 5 payroll and a then record setting home sell-out streak of 455 games (sold out every home game for 5.5 consecutive years). The Indians had 7 consecutive winning seasons right before Shapiro became GM and he inherited a slew of high FA compensation draft picks which they consistently blew over > 10 years. Shapiro/Dolan failed to sign their key free agents and those idiots actually told fans if they didn't like the moves they shouldn't come to the games - the fans listened.

The guy who was doing the drafting for Shapiro during his initial 5+ years and who blew all of the draft picks was not only not fired but he was promoted! There is no accountability within the Dolan/Shapiro regime It is completely unhealthy. Having Shapiro leave is half the battle. The other half is having Dolan sell. It can't come soon enough.

The very few and very vocal Shapiro/Dolan supporters there are in Cleveland say the bad attendance is due to having bad and unsupportive fans. Yet the baseball town was excellent in the years leading up to Shapiro and Dolan and the town continues to strongly support the Browns and Cavs. Hell the Cavs drew respectable crowds even when they were in total tank mode.

90%+ of Cleveland fans can't stand and don't trust Dolan or Shapiro. The only way to fix things is for them both to leave. We just lost 50% of that bad duo now we just need the other half to go.