Goins or Travis: Long Term 2B

North_of_Border · Post #1 » by **North_of_Border** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:58 am

The Jays dont have much talent in the minors that could be considered the future 2b of the team for years to come. However, they have 2 guys in in majors who fit the picture very well. That being Goins and Travis.

Goins had the chance to grab the role and run with it in past seasons. He was given all the chances he could need. Unfortunately he failed. He was looking like a future solid backup. Amazing defense but beliw average hitter... And when Toronto hit the jackpot on Travis, who by the way was no sure thing coming from a weak Tigers system. Travis was gonna be the 2b of the future.

Then bang!

Travis is injured. Goins is forced into a role that he was just expected to hold up. All the jays need him to do is give his usual defense. However, Goins is playing like an actual MLB starting 2b. He can hit.... Yes, Ryan Goins can actually hit. That along with his Defense, he has become a very valuable piece for the future..... Enough to pass Travis on the 2016 depth though?

I think the Jays have 2 MLB starting calibre 2b. Keeping a platoon at the position is great. I mean they are both young and under control. Though is that wise?... Especially considering how potentially weak the rotation looks next season. Can the jays justify wasting starter calibre players on the bench when they can easily be flipped for help elsewhere?

Travis was looking like a star early. He could be the best all around 2B since Aaron Hill for a couple of seasons here.... Goins is not gonna be a star. But he provides acceptable batting, toped with ELITE defense. His defense alone counts for a bunch of wins.

If the jays traded a 2b... Who should they deal.... Travis or Goins?

Raps in 4 · Post #2 » by **Raps in 4** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 5:25 am

Absurd question. Travis was a 2.3 WAR player in 62 games. That's elite production. Goins is just on a hot streak.

You keep Travis 10 times out of 10 unless he can net us a young and controllable top of the rotation pitcher in a trade. Once Bautista and Encarnacion are out of the picture we're going to need Travis' bat.

SharoneWright · Post #3 » by **SharoneWright** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 5:33 am

Not a problem. Neither player is owed anything.

Pseudo platoon. Travis plays more. Goins can also fill in at short against righties, which Travis can not.

Raptor_Guy · Post #4 » by **Raptor_Guy** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 11:39 am

Travis with Goins playing backup to both him and Tulo, Tulo will need lots of days off.

kayliecee · Post #5 » by **kayliecee** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 12:34 pm

I don't think this is an absurd question at all. Travis was great and so has Goins been the last month or so. I'm not buying the hot-streak theory. Hot streaks are usually a result of getting good contact and lots of BABIP luck. In Goins case, the increase in production is mainly down to him looking at more bad pitches and getting deeper into counts where his numbers make a huge jump.

Ideally, I'd like to keep them both because we have no idea as to Travis's durability, but either one could be an interesting trade chip. We get to watch Goins for another few weeks. No doubt the opposing coaches/pitchers are going to be looking to come up with ways to counteract his new approach. We get to see what he's made of.

Lateral Quicks · Post #6 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 12:35 pm

whynotboth.gif

But yeah, Travis is your undisputed starter. Goins is a perfect middle infield reserve. If, and only if, he continues to hit like this, do you consider moving one of them.

Randle McMurphy · Post #7 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 1:25 pm

Amazing how overrated Goins has become in a month.

Santoki · Post #8 » by **Santoki** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 2:13 pm

You keep both. Travis and Tulo will both miss games at times next year and Goins can slide in seamlessly as your middle infield reserve.

bluerap23 · Post #9 » by **bluerap23** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 2:13 pm

i think it is worth considering trading tulo before 2017.

dagger · Post #10 » by **dagger** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 2:53 pm

Travis, no doubt, but he has to prove next season that he isn't disastrously injury prone.

wazabifuzz · Post #11 » by **wazabifuzz** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 2:59 pm

This is a stupid question for the obvious...

you keep both !

you need a capable backup SS/2b but we just happen to have the top 10 defensive ss/2b in the MLB in Goins.
you let him go, For sure he will be picked up by any of the the A's or the Redsox or the O's.

BigLeagueChew · Post #12 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:03 pm

Both are not arb eligible until 2018, I think. Let Travis come back next year, if he can't stay healthy then consider moving him, like we did with Lawrie.

kayliecee · Post #13 » by **kayliecee** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:15 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:Amazing how overrated Goins has become in a month.

Didn't that happen to that guy in May 2010... what was his name again? Jose something. Had a 1.188 OPS that month then came back down to earth the following month with an OPS of .693. Whatever happened to him?

BigLeagueChew · Post #14 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:18 pm

kayliecee wrote:
Didn't that happen to that guy in May 2010... what was his name again? Jose something. Had a 1.188 OPS that month then came back down to earth the following month with an OPS of .693. Whatever happened to him?

Are you really comparing Goins to Bautista? you just proved Randle's point lol

joseph227 · Post #15 » by **joseph227** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:30 pm

Goins has never shown to be a good hitter even in the minors while Bautista had a couple of okay years in Pitt and always had a good walk rate. Many bad hitters have had a hot month or two and it didn't mean they're not bad hitters anymore. Now, Goins can play defense so he doesn't have to hit a lot to be an okay player but I'll take my bet with Travis, as he has hit all through the minors and for 2 months in the majors, and has shown he's pretty good defensively also.

EastBayBoy · Post #16 » by **EastBayBoy** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:38 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:Amazing how overrated Goins has become in a month.

Totally agree. I think its mostly due to many people tuning into Jays' games after the roster over haul (about a month and a half ago, not exactly, but right around the time Goins got hot) so many haven't seen Goins' play from earlier this season and past years.

The_Hater · Post #17 » by **The_Hater** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:39 pm

I like Goins but he's definitely not going to be able to sustain this level of hitting. And can Travis stay healthy?

With Goins versatility I suspect that they'll both be on the roster next season. No need to go all-in on one or the other just yet. Plus having both will allow Tulo to sit 25-30 games as well.

I_Like_Dirt · Post #18 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:43 pm

Yeah, stick with both for now. See if Travis can stay healthy or if Goins can still continue playing at a solid level when he comes back down to earth a little bit. No decision has to be made at this point. It would be foolish to rush to a conclusion at this point. The team has other avenues to address their pitching next season rather than making a hasty decision between two very good players.

Randle McMurphy · Post #19 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:45 pm

kayliecee wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:Amazing how overrated Goins has become in a month.

Didn't that happen to that guy in May 2010... what was his name again? Jose something. Had a 1.188 OPS that month then came back down to earth the following month with an OPS of .693. Whatever happened to him?

Stop.

The_Hater · Post #20 » by **The_Hater** » Wed Sep 9, 2015 3:46 pm

EastBayBoy wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:Amazing how overrated Goins has become in a month.

Totally agree. I think its mostly due to many people tuning into Jays' games after the roster over haul (about a month and a half ago, not exactly, but right around the time Goins got hot) so many haven't seen Goins' play from earlier this season and past years.

Anyone who has just watched the Jays since August 1st would think that Goins is an all-star 2nd baseball. And his numbers would back that up.

Unfortunately the stink of all his previous months in the majors still exists. As I mentioned in a previous post, the key for Goins isn't his current hot streak but if he can settle in as a 650+ OPS guy going forward. That would be more than enough offense coupled with his stellar D. And I think that's possible if his improved eye at the plate isn't a mirage.