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Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 1:57 am
by NinjaBro
He's been looking real shaky this past month, his confidence is shot. On the contrary Cecil has been damn near unhittable with his confidence sky high, peaking at the perfect time. Should we be looking to making Cecil our closer again? Cecil is the one I trust the most when the game is on the line.
Discuss
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 2:12 am
by Randle McMurphy
Cecil is the best reliever in the bullpen. And that's exactly the reason he should continue pitching in the same role he's in.
Re: RE: Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 2:54 am
by Sifu
Randle McMurphy wrote:Cecil is the best reliever in the bullpen. And that's exactly the reason he should continue pitching in the same role he's in.
Actually I disagree. Cecil has largely been used as a bridge to the ninth. For example, he will come into the eighth with none on. It's the same type of situation Osuna would have except it's the eighth or earlier so lower leverage in many cases.
If you said Cecil comes in for high leverage situations regardless of inning, I would agree that's the right usage, but that's not really how he is used. Take today as an example.
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 2:56 am
by Boogie!
osuna needs to stop throwing so many fastballs i think. unless he starts touching 100. but seriously dude needs to use his slider more. **** osuna was killer for us earlier and i am a bit worried.
Re: RE: Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 2:59 am
by Randle McMurphy
Sifu wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Cecil is the best reliever in the bullpen. And that's exactly the reason he should continue pitching in the same role he's in.
Actually I disagree. Cecil has largely been used as a bridge to the ninth. For example, he will come into the eighth with none on. It's the same type of situation Osuna would have except it's the eighth or earlier so lower leverage in many cases.
If you said Cecil comes in for high leverage situations regardless of inning, I would agree that's the right usage, but that's not really how he is used. Take today as an example.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_isJn4pXhk[/youtube]
Taking away the option to use Cecil in spots like that when you literally have no other lefty you can trust makes no sense at all.
Re: RE: Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 3:14 am
by BigLeagueChew
Cecil has been our 3rd most valuable arm of the 2nd half, after Price and Dickey, but just because he's not the 9th inning guy doesn't make his role that much different or less important though. The higher leverage spot isn't always the 9th.
2nd half stats
Price 2.7 fWar
Dickey 2.0 fWar
Cecil 1.3 fWar
Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 3:20 am
by Sifu
Randle McMurphy wrote:Sifu wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Cecil is the best reliever in the bullpen. And that's exactly the reason he should continue pitching in the same role he's in.
Actually I disagree. Cecil has largely been used as a bridge to the ninth. For example, he will come into the eighth with none on. It's the same type of situation Osuna would have except it's the eighth or earlier so lower leverage in many cases.
If you said Cecil comes in for high leverage situations regardless of inning, I would agree that's the right usage, but that's not really how he is used. Take today as an example.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_isJn4pXhk[/youtube]
Taking away the option to use Cecil in spots like that when you literally have no other lefty you can trust makes no sense at all.
I'm not disagreeing with you on how Cecil should be used. I'm saying that Gibby does not use Cecil the way he should be used in most cases.
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 3:40 am
by BigLeagueChew
Mainly worried about Osuna's fastball location lately but he's still been very good this 2nd half. Slash line of 183/.213/.404/.617. Noone has been better than Cecil but I don't think you switch them at this point.
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 3:59 am
by Raptor_Guy
It'd be pretty funny if they named Cecil the closer for the 3rd time this season, but there's no way they do it on the last game of the season, seems like too much of a panic move.
But yes we should be concerned, he doesn't have a reliable secondary pitch and hitters are sitting on his fastball.
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Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 5:54 am
by Scott Hall
I am concerned
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 6:34 am
by UN-Owen
Should've traded for Papelbon
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 7:01 am
by SharoneWright
Re: RE: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 7:54 am
by RalphWiggum
NinjaBro wrote:He's been looking real shaky this past month, his confidence is shot. On the contrary Cecil has been damn near unhittable with his confidence sky high, peaking at the perfect time. Should we be looking to making Cecil our closer again? Cecil is the one I trust the most when the game is on the line.
Discuss
I'm marginally concerned but he's still our best bet with a clean slate in the ninth. I'd prefer Cecil all things being equal but we then lose him in those situational situations where he's been so valuable recently.
Very few teams in history get to go into the 9th knowing it's basically a done deal and the game is over. Teams with much shakier closers than Osuna have won it all.
I will say I agree with Zaun that he's using his slider in counts where it's not conducive to success. Throw the heat mix in a change up and try your best to locate your pitches. Make them beat your best. He did himself no favours tonight. Partially on dinner though I guess.
Re: RE: Re: RE: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 11:34 am
by kayliecee
RalphWiggum wrote:NinjaBro wrote:He's been looking real shaky this past month, his confidence is shot. On the contrary Cecil has been damn near unhittable with his confidence sky high, peaking at the perfect time. Should we be looking to making Cecil our closer again? Cecil is the one I trust the most when the game is on the line.
Discuss
I'm marginally concerned but he's still our best bet with a clean slate in the ninth. I'd prefer Cecil all things being equal but we then lose him in those situational situations where he's been so valuable recently.
Very few teams in history get to go into the 9th knowing it's basically a done deal and the game is over. Teams with much shakier closers than Osuna have won it all.
I will say I agree with Zaun that he's using his slider in counts where it's not conducive to success. Throw the heat mix in a change up and try your best to locate your pitches. Make them beat your best. He did himself no favours tonight. Partially on dinner though I guess.
I would say totally on dinner.
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 1:18 pm
by dagger
As I said earlier, I don't like how Navarro handled him yesterday on the Sousa at bat, and I've seen it before with Osuna. He gets an 0-2 count on a hitter, and then they start nibbling. 1-2. 2-2. It's the 2-2 pitch, maybe after a couple of foul balls, that ends up being a crucial miss. It's either the pitch the batter hits, or the count goes to 3-2 and he has to grove one. If her gets an 0-2 count, he might as well finish off the batter right there, or at most, try one pitch outside the zone. If he's going to give up a 3-2 or 2-2 hit, he is not worse off challenging the hitter on a 1-2 count while he has the advantage and the batter guessing.
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Sun Oct 4, 2015 1:39 pm
by Mad Prophet
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Tue Oct 6, 2015 12:43 am
by North_of_Border
I think he will figure it out eventually but just in case he doesnt going to Cecil might not be too bad of an idea since he is likely the closer heading into 2016 again.
Osuna is a MLB starter by next season. With all the prosoects now dealt I truely believe that. Cardinals did the same thing with Adam Weighnright a few years back. The closer experience will only help Osuna's future.
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Tue Oct 6, 2015 1:34 am
by Skin Blues
Randle McMurphy wrote:Cecil is the best reliever in the bullpen. And that's exactly the reason he should continue pitching in the same role he's in.
Why would you not use your best reliever in the highest leverage situations? If you're gonna be inflexible and use the capital C closer for savbe opps, use your best guy. I'd rather they played the platoon advantage though. If all the best righties are coming up in the 8th, use Osuna, and then Cecil in the 9th.
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Tue Oct 6, 2015 1:37 am
by Randle McMurphy
Skin Blues wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Cecil is the best reliever in the bullpen. And that's exactly the reason he should continue pitching in the same role he's in.
Why would you not use your best reliever in the highest leverage situations? If you're gonna be inflexible and use the capital C closer for savbe opps, use your best guy. I'd rather they played the platoon advantage though. If all the best righties are coming up in the 8th, use Osuna, and then Cecil in the 9th.
Uh, that was the point. I want to continue using Cecil in the possible highest leverage situations possible. Those don't tend to be the 2 and 3 run leads that closers are routinely given in the 9th inning. If you stick him in that inning, you lose the ability to bring him in situationally in the 7th or 8th inning with tough lefties up in a close game (and that could happen often on a team with Choo, Fielder, and Hamilton).
Re: Should We Be Concerned With Osuna?
Posted: Tue Oct 6, 2015 1:47 am
by Skin Blues
Randle McMurphy wrote:Skin Blues wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Cecil is the best reliever in the bullpen. And that's exactly the reason he should continue pitching in the same role he's in.
Why would you not use your best reliever in the highest leverage situations? If you're gonna be inflexible and use the capital C closer for savbe opps, use your best guy. I'd rather they played the platoon advantage though. If all the best righties are coming up in the 8th, use Osuna, and then Cecil in the 9th.
Uh, that was the point. I want to continue using Cecil in the possible highest leverage situations possible. Those don't tend to be the 2 and 3 run leads that closers are routinely given in the 9th inning. If you stick him in that inning, you lose the ability to bring him in situationally in the 7th or 8th inning with tough lefties up in a close game (and that could happen often on a team with Choo, Fielder, and Hamilton).
That's not how they use Cecil. They give Brett all the high leverage situations
excluding save situations. Osuna has had significantly higher game-leverage than Cecil this season. In August and September too. If you're going to have a Closer, then he will be in the highest leverage situations.
