OT: Clemens implies Roy Halladay used amphetamines?

Post #1 » by **Rhettmatic** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 3:40 pm

This is the first I'm hearing about this. Kinda convoluted story but it starts with Roy Halladay's tweet:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RoyHalladay/status/684643933150928897[/tweet]

Then Clemens fires back:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/status/684939223405707265[/tweet]

Here's Deadspin's story on it:

http://deadspin.com/roger-clemens-fires-back-at-roy-halladay-with-a-ped-acc-1751556503

LLJ · Post #2 » by **LLJ** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:06 pm

I'd never rule out anything. Roy was incredibly durable and threw at a high level for a long time. That could be luck and genes or it could be more than that.

That said, Clemens tweet on Halladay is still obviously completely speculative on its own, whereas there's more evidence than not that Clemens used.

cram · Post #3 » by **cram** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:24 pm

Roy was famous for his work ethic and discipline. I think you should attribute his success to that (along with just pure talent), and throw Rogers' comments where they belong....in the garbage.

Randle McMurphy · Post #4 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:36 pm

Looks like the doctor touched a nerve.

It wouldn't surprise me if they both used amphetamines considering the era in which they played. Not sure why anybody would actually care about that, though.

Fairview4Life · Post #5 » by **Fairview4Life** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:53 pm

Roy lives in a pretty thick walled brick house, but he still shouldn't throw stones. Bonds and Clemens should both be in the Hall of Fame.

snomeister · Post #6 » by **snomeister** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 6:08 pm

cram wrote:Roy was famous for his work ethic and discipline. I think you should attribute his success to that (along with just pure talent), and throw Rogers' comments where they belong....in the garbage.

That's what people said about Lance Armstrong. I'm definitely not saying Roy used them, but part of the point of steroids is it lets you work out more with less recovery. It's not some kind of magic solution that makes you super human while sitting on the couch. There's been "lazy" athletes who have been caught using them as well as the "hard working" type getting caught too.

Raps in 4 · Post #7 » by **Raps in 4** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 6:16 pm

Halladay didn't have any of the physical characteristics of a PED user. He also threw softly.

Randle McMurphy · Post #8 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 6:21 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:He also threw softly.

Threw in the mid to high 90s at his physical peak.

changes · Post #9 » by **changes** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 6:22 pm

Pretty much all elite athletes in all sports use PED's, it's part of the business. Being hard working, a good guy, etc has nothing to do with it and is completely unrelated.

I have absolutely no problem with it but we live in a society where you have to lie through your teeth about it because anyone that admits to it gets destroyed in the public eye. You have to appeal to the masses that need to believe all their heroes are full natty brah.

tl;dr Who cares.

TONYROMOHOF · Post #10 » by **TONYROMOHOF** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 6:43 pm

Roys tweet is trash
Keep hating on your peers
Bonds not in the hall is why i never watch baseball anymore aside from the jays micro run

Hall of fame is a joke, no rose, no bonds, who gives a **** about it

Congrats griffey, but **** the hall

Roy should go count his rings, oh wait

TONYROMOHOF · Post #11 » by **TONYROMOHOF** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 6:47 pm

changes wrote:Pretty much all elite athletes in all sports use PED's, it's part of the business. Being hard working, a good guy, etc has nothing to do with it and is completely unrelated.

I have absolutely no problem with it but we live in a society where you have to lie through your teeth about it because anyone that admits to it gets destroyed in the public eye. You have to appeal to the masses that need to believe all their heroes are full natty brah.

tl;dr Who cares.

This is what it is
One day no one will care, and baseball will have ruined two decades of its history and dragged some of the best players of all time thru the mud for what?
Some pompous old world baseball writers to feel good while they eat themselves into the grave

God i hate baseball right now and i have for a long time now

Randle McMurphy · Post #12 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 6:53 pm

TONYROMOHOF wrote:Roy should go count his rings, oh wait

There's some irony to a Romo fan posting this.

TONYROMOHOF · Post #13 » by **TONYROMOHOF** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 7:00 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:
TONYROMOHOF wrote:Roy should go count his rings, oh wait

There's some irony to a Romo fan posting this.

One day my friend, maybe as a coach, or if jerry dies

LLJ · Post #14 » by **LLJ** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 7:02 pm

The fact is, professional sports is very grueling physically. I absolutely can believe PEDs is used in every sport, if only to get through a long season playing at a high level. The normal human body probably isn't really built to go through so much semi-daily high impact, high cardio or high endurance physical activity. This is not the same as running on the treadmill every Tuesday and Thursdays for an hour or so, these are guys either running a lot, jumping a lot, throwing 80-100 hard pitches per game, hitting, diving, pushing and shoving for 82 or 162 games all squeezed into a very compact time period.

Raps in 4 · Post #15 » by **Raps in 4** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 7:02 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:He also threw softly.

Threw in the mid to high 90s at his physical peak.

Point is he was never a power pitcher (aside from his early years when he sucked).

Sure it's possible he used PEDs at some point, but there isn't much evidence that would suggest it.

tecumseh18 · Post #16 » by **tecumseh18** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 7:09 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:He also threw softly.

Threw in the mid to high 90s at his physical peak.

Point is he was never a power pitcher (aside from his early years when he sucked).

Sure it's possible he used PEDs at some point, but there isn't much evidence that would suggest it.

?

So who are the power pitchers? Verlander, Chapman and ...?

Now if you say Roy was not JUST a power pitcher, I'll agree. But he still deteriorated pretty quickly in his mid-30's, typical of a power pitcher.

cram · Post #17 » by **cram** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 7:13 pm

snomeister wrote:
cram wrote:Roy was famous for his work ethic and discipline. I think you should attribute his success to that (along with just pure talent), and throw Rogers' comments where they belong....in the garbage.

That's what people said about Lance Armstrong. I'm definitely not saying Roy used them, but part of the point of steroids is it lets you work out more with less recovery. It's not some kind of magic solution that makes you super human while sitting on the couch. There's been "lazy" athletes who have been caught using them as well as the "hard working" type getting caught too.

So now we're equating Roy Halladay with Lance Armstrong? Give your head a shake.

Don't you also think.....if there was any truth to Rogers' claim, wouldn't he have been a lot more direct and louder with it?

cram · Post #18 » by **cram** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 7:18 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:Bonds and Clemens should both be in the Hall of Fame.

Do you really believe that? They both tarnished their careers and the sport in general in a pretty giant way.

Post #19 » by **Rhettmatic** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 7:30 pm

Halladay subtweets a response:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RoyHalladay/status/685129720988569600[/tweet]

Fairview4Life · Post #20 » by **Fairview4Life** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 7:33 pm

cram wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:Bonds and Clemens should both be in the Hall of Fame.

Do you really believe that? They both tarnished their careers and the sport in general in a pretty giant way.

Yes. One is the greatest hitter of all time, who was also outstanding in the field and on the bases when he was younger. The other is one of the greatest pitchers of all time.

There are guys in the Hall of Fame who tarnished the world they lived in, not their careers, like Ty Cobb. There are guys who never had to play against black players, like Babe Ruth. There are guys who popped greenies every day, like Hank Aaron.

If the Hall of Fame is for the best baseball players of all time, then Bonds and Clemens should certainly be in.