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My friends and I are having an argument. I think there is a very good chance Jays would have still made the playoffs without the price trade. They say there is no way.

Price had a 2.4 WAR for the Jays
Jays won the division by 6 games.
Jays rested their starters 5 games down the stretch, going 1-4 over that time once they clinched. That lead could have been bigger.
Jays went 9-2 in games started by Price.
Jays would have had to go 4-7 in games pitched by Prices replacement to win the division.
Jays were 31-17 in games not pitched by Price.
Jays were extremely unlucky in the first half. Fangrapahs had their expected Win/Loss at 103-59. Things started to even out how they were supposed to be in the 2nd half.

Their argument is Price led to momentum that they wouldn't of otherwise had, and his confidence helped other members of the staff. Also saved some bull pen innings.

There's a chance they make it, but I think Price put them over the top in terms of motivation if not just straight up wins.

I still think they would have made it. That offense was head and shoulders above the rest of MLB last season and would have won a ton of games the final 2 months with a replacement level starter on the mound. People also forget that Stroman returned and was lights out in Sept as well.

On paper they should but the confidence this team had after the trade was unbelievable. You can't discount the mental factor of playing more relaxed, both on defense and at the plate.

Without question. He was great but we didn't need him to make the playoffs. At the time of the trade we were on the bubble and it's not fair to judge after the fact based solely on the results. That said, I still didn't like the trade because of how unlikely it was that he'd make a difference. If we win a lot, we don't need him (except in the playoffs, obviously, because who else will be our mop-up reliever?) If we lose a lot, we didn't need him at all. There's a narrow band of outcomes where he makes or breaks our playoff chances and we gave up 6 years of Daniel Norris for it, not to mention 6 years of a possibly competent MLB starter in Boyd. Now, the fact he had cancer at the time reduces his value, but maybe it boosts it if he goes all Jon Lester on us!

I said no. That deal had such a massive positive impact on the clubhouse.

If you break down the numbers, void of emotion, sure. But I honestly believe there's an intangible factor. When we traded for Price I believe the entire roster had a collective "holy **********" moment, where their confidence reached new heights. Many people don't believe in that stuff and discount it as hocus pocus nonsense. But I think it played a factor that is impossible to measure. I also think the Tulo trade goes under rated around some regions of the internet. Sure, his hitting was spotty (or stunk) but his defense and shoring up that middle, was enormous for us. In fact, that combination of Tulo's D and Sanchez coming back from injury and heading to the BP would've probably been enough to put us over the top. Did I mention Strow Show coming back at the end of the season? Oh ya, there's that too

Nolan wrote:I said no. That deal had such a massive positive impact on the clubhouse.

While that's impossible to measure, It was the series of deals that created that positive impact not just the Price trade. The Tulo trade and those few smaller deals still would have been a huge shot in the arm and more than any other team in MLB added at the deadline.

It's impossible to say for sure but having Price there to stabilize the rotation down the stretch was huge. It's possible that Hutchison could have continued limping out wins to offset Price's victories but I don't think his 8-1 stretch over 10 starts that went through the Yankees series that put the division away would have happened otherwise. It put less stress on the bullpen and changed the dynamics and atmosphere. Look at Bautista's reaction to the Reyes trade for Tulowitzki. The team was skeptical that the GM/ownership were going to get pitching help.

I think it's pretty unlikely that they go on that run without Price. Maybe they get the wildcard but certainly not the division.

I say no. The Price trade was the one to give the team a lot of swagger and confidence.

Price deal sent a message to the team that we're going all in. Just look up the tweets by the Jays players on July 30/August 1. Everyone was fired up. Even Stroman was losing his ****

Price went 9–1 with a 2.30 ERA. Runner up for the CY Young and lead the AL in Era. Every night he pitched at home the stadium was right packed. The atmosphere was incredible

I'm over Price but that run doesn't happen without Price. Sorry.

Mohanad wrote:Price deal sent a message to the team that we're going all in. Just look up the tweets by the Jays players on July 30/August 1. Everyone was fired up. Even Stroman was losing his ****

Price went 9–1 with a 2.30 ERA. Runner up for the CY Young and lead the AL in Era. Every night he pitched at home the stadium was right packed. The atmosphere was incredible

I'm over Price but that run doesn't happen without Price. Sorry.

I agree. No chance we pulled that run off without Price.

It's hard to say. We can't forget that AA shored up some major holes in the bullpen, outfield, and infield at the deadline as well - one with an MVP calibre player. Those moves alone may have been sufficient to build the kind of momentum and confidence we saw.

Mohanad wrote:Price deal sent a message to the team that we're going all in. Just look up the tweets by the Jays players on July 30/August 1. Everyone was fired up. Even Stroman was losing his ****

Price went 9–1 with a 2.30 ERA. Runner up for the CY Young and lead the AL in Era. Every night he pitched at home the stadium was right packed. The atmosphere was incredible

I'm over Price but that run doesn't happen without Price. Sorry.

100% spot on.

I'm


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Without David Price, Jays would have been battling for the wildcard.

Having a solid star like Price on ur side has a HUGE mental advantage factor. Even when he was not starting, it got the Jays in a groove with his presence.

....... the more interesting debate is, had Dambrowski been hired as the Jays President, would the team have made a run at Price?

Nah they needed Price, he was huge for catching the Yankees since we used him against them every time we face them.

Plus don't forget Hutch and Buehrle both fell apart down the stretch, without Price we would have had to rely on them which would have been awful.

Not a chance. Trading for Price and Tulo showed the team that management was serious about winning. That provided them with the motivation they needed to go on their run.

This is an area of the sport where stats don't tell the whole story. In simple WAR terms we would have made the playoffs, but WAR doesn't account for motivation, something that is scientifically proven to be hugely important in sports (and any kind of organizational work). Simply put, people aren't robots.

I've spent 5 years studying the effects of motivation on workers. It isn't a pseudo science. Organizations pay consultants and managers big money to ensure their staff are motivated and performing to their full potential.