Jays Have No Intention of Signing Jose or EE

[North_of_Border]

http://bluejayhunter.com/2016/06/sherman-blue-jays-no-intention-re-signing-bautista-encarnacion.html

Until the final out of the Toronto Blue Jays’ 2016 is recorded, the future of Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion will loom over this team like a dark cloud.

While this year’s squad is simply focused on winning this year, the front office is also looking beyond the 2016 season and trying to keep the Blue Jays competitive. One wonders whether that’s possible without the likes of Bautista and Encarnacion on the roster.

Many are pining for the Blue Jays to trade Bautista and Encarancion before the deadline to restock the farm system. Unless the Jays were clearly out of contention, it seems like a counterproductive move to ship off pieces from a team that’s in “win now” mode.

Not to mention, how much would the Blue Jays really get in return for two months of services from Bautista and Encarnacion. But that doesn’t mean Jose and Edwin will be Blue Jays beyond the 2016 season. This from Joel Sherman’s latest in the NY Post:

The Blue Jays have a powerful lineup even without Bautista (currently on the disabled list), in part because of the emergence of Michael Saunders. They have no intention of signing Bautista or Edwin Encarnacion long term when they are free agents after this season.

Before one questions the validity of this report, as Clint noted to me, Joel Sherman is one of the few writers who reported the Blue Jays’ initial interest in Jose Reyes months before the blockbuster trade with the Marlins.

Sherman seems like someone who’s fairly well-connected within the Blue Jays organization, as he also hinted the Blue Jays were considering a salary dump for Jose Reyes just a few years later.

Will say this #Bluejays loved Reyes but wouldn't do more 5 yrs Well, it's 5-yr pact after '12 & Tor currently trying to move Yunel Escobar

— Joel Sherman (@Joelsherman1) July 25, 2012

Joel Sherman seems like someone who’s fairly well-connected within the Blue Jays organization, as he also hinted the Blue Jays were considering a salary dump for Jose Reyes just a few years later.

We’ve heard about the Blue Jays’ unwillingness to re-sign Jose Bautista and Encarnacion before, but never the phrase “no intention” which essentially rules out any possibility of Jose and Edwin coming back.

The operative phrase in Sherman’s article is the Blue Jays are reportedly not interested in re-signing either Bautista or Encarnacion “long term”. A short-term deal for either player isn’t out of the question, but with Bautista reportedly asking for five years and $150 million dollars and Encarnacion looking for a three-year deal, both parties may be going their separate ways.

The season is hardly half over and a lot of things can change between now and season’s end; Jose Bautista’s asking price may suddenly come down, or perhaps the Blue Jays feel their money is better invested into someone like Edwin Encarancion.

But if the Blue Jays’ stance is already a hard “no” to bringing back Bautista or Encarnacion, it’s likely going to take a lot to change their stance on re-signing two of their most prolific sluggers.

[dagger]

No one has done a thread on what the Jays do with the money they save on those two plus Dickey (assuming they don't bring him and his personal catcher back). That's about $45 million. Stroman, Osuna and Sanchez aren't due for arbitration yet, nor are Travis and Pillar. Storen and Floyd might as well take a powder. That's another $10m. Happy and Estrada are set. Justin Smoak is a luxury. Donaldson gets a scheduled $6m bump in salary, Martin goes up by $5m and Estrada by $3m. Cecil will get a bit more. According to Cots, the Jays have $84 million in commitments, which includes all of the above except a raise for Cecil, vs a current $137m. Maybe they buy out someone's arb years, or something like that, but if they aren't bringing back Edwin at least, they are going to have more money than they need to find a right fielder better than Carrera, give Michael Saunders a big raise and a couple of reliable relievers. They even have Jesus Montero at BUF who can be DH. Frankly, a three year deal for prime Edwin is not out of the question, and buys time for the team to develop a long-term replacement like Rowdy Tellez to come in and do the job on the cheap for a few years.

[Lateral Quicks]

Agreed, if EE is willing to accept a 3-year deal, you do it assuming the dollars aren't too outlandish for a primary DH.

[RalphWiggum]

I can see why they'd have no intentions on signing Bautista at his age and outlandish price and term that's been rumoured but why not EE? He's a few years younger than Jose is still very productive and can probably be had for a reasonable price in comparison to Jose. To have already internally decided they have no interest in retaining him doesn't seem very smart.

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[Schad]

Even with the number of pre-arb players we'll retain, our payroll is going to be a mess next season. ~$50-60m to spend (assuming a bit of a jump in budget) with three of our best bats, most of our bullpen, a starter and most/all of our bench hitting free agency will not be easy to remedy...sign Encarnacion for ~$20m+ a year and we'd have to make substantial sacrifices elsewhere.

None of our options are great, really. It's incredibly difficult to build a team of old guys unless some are massively underpaid (as Bautista and Encarnacion have been up to this point), or you have a budget in the $200m+ range.

[Ong_dynasty]

I have no problem spending big numbers if it's short term or a 2+1 kinda deal..bu if they are looking at 5 years..probably worth looking at something else

[nonc]

Hopefully Bautista is dealt for blue chip pitching. You can understand Edwin landing elsewhere on the open market and his need to stay put for playoff run, but retaining both and getting nothing for them would be tragic.

[Schad]

Hopefully Bautista is dealt for blue chip pitching. You can understand Edwin landing elsewhere on the open market and his need to stay put for playoff run, but retaining both and getting nothing for them would be tragic.

Not quite nothing...we'd QO both, and consequently would get two comp round picks (somewhere from 30-45) and an extra $3.5-4.0m in bonus pool. That's a good base for an AA-style high-risk, high-reward draft.

I'd be shocked if we dealt either of them in a playoff race, particularly as Bautista likely doesn't fetch top-end pitching prospects at this moment.

[The_Hater]

Whether money is spent on and combination of EE, Jose, Saunders or none of the above, the Jays are still going to spend the exact same amount of money on payroll next season. It's way to early to worry about who they spend it on and the major key is that they spend it wisely, not that they bring back current players at all costs. Hopefully the doubters have learned that from the David Price situation.

[BramptonYute]

Id rather they bring back Saunders and EE, let Jose walk and spend some on upgrading 1b.

Bring joey back if he accepts a fair deal, if not, hope Pompey has made the strides necessary to takeover RF.

[Skin Blues]

Hopefully Bautista is dealt for blue chip pitching. You can understand Edwin landing elsewhere on the open market and his need to stay put for playoff run, but retaining both and getting nothing for them would be tragic.

Not quite nothing...we'd QO both, and consequently would get two comp round picks (somewhere from 30-45) and an extra $3.5-4.0m in bonus pool. That's a good base for an AA-style high-risk, high-reward draft.

I'd be shocked if we dealt either of them in a playoff race, particularly as Bautista likely doesn't fetch top-end pitching prospects at this moment.

Yeah I don't get why people think it's a smart idea to trade either of them if we're in the playoff hunt, which we certainly will be. He's more valuable to us than to anybody else. Not only do we get them for the final 2 months + playoffs, like the new team would. We also get the two comp picks, which otherwise would vanish and are an opportunity cost we would end up paying. Makes no sense.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Even with the number of pre-arb players we'll retain, our payroll is going to be a mess next season. ~$50-60m to spend (assuming a bit of a jump in budget) with three of our best bats, most of our bullpen, a starter and most/all of our bench hitting free agency will not be easy to remedy...sign Encarnacion for ~$20m+ a year and we'd have to make substantial sacrifices elsewhere.

None of our options are great, really. It's incredibly difficult to build a team of old guys unless some are massively underpaid (as Bautista and Encarnacion have been up to this point), or you have a budget in the $200m+ range.

Replacing the kind of production that the non-Osuna bullpen has produced can be done, uh, cheaply... Getting a good bullpen would cost, but not necessarily an outlandish amount if the team is smart about it. If the team wants to move Osuna in as a starter, then things get dicier in the pen, but way better in the starting rotation, which is where the primary cost starts to run up bigtime.

Starters, though, even without Osuna, I don't necessarily see a problem, at least not for next season. Happ, Sanchez, Estrada and Stroman is a fine top 4 of a rotation. I still haven't given up on Hutch as a 5th starter, either. I think the starters look pretty solid for next season, even without Dickey. It's the bats, and whether or not the Jays decide they want to build a good BP that matter most, but there is a reasonable amount of money to get a couple bats and a BP.

[Jatt]

The Jose you get from here on out and in whatever # of years he signs is a mid .200's hitter with above average power and below average defense, I would do my level best to retain Edwin & Saunders but given Jose's demands (if they're still the same ones he had in Spring Training coming off the bat-flip high), then no thanks.

[The_Hater]

Hopefully Bautista is dealt for blue chip pitching. You can understand Edwin landing elsewhere on the open market and his need to stay put for playoff run, but retaining both and getting nothing for them would be tragic.

Not quite nothing...we'd QO both, and consequently would get two comp round picks (somewhere from 30-45) and an extra $3.5-4.0m in bonus pool. That's a good base for an AA-style high-risk, high-reward draft.

I'd be shocked if we dealt either of them in a playoff race, particularly as Bautista likely doesn't fetch top-end pitching prospects at this moment.

Yeah I don't get why people think it's a smart idea to trade either of them if we're in the playoff hunt, which we certainly will be. He's more valuable to us than to anybody else. Not only do we get them for the final 2 months + playoffs, like the new team would. We also get the two comp picks, which otherwise would vanish and are an opportunity cost we would end up paying. Makes no sense.

Exactly But because we're winning without Jose, there's a underlying feeling with some people that we're better off without him. Like he was the one one holding us back or something. Just forget about all those previous seasons of elite production and clutch hitting. There was the exact same sentiment about Tulo when he was on the DL and the Jays started playing better without him.

[polo007]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/752577827514429441[/tweet]

[joshgc]

[BramptonYute]

damn they're already lowkey recruiting him

[northernpuppy]

Hopefully Bautista is dealt for blue chip pitching. You can understand Edwin landing elsewhere on the open market and his need to stay put for playoff run, but retaining both and getting nothing for them would be tragic.

Not quite nothing...we'd QO both, and consequently would get two comp round picks (somewhere from 30-45) and an extra $3.5-4.0m in bonus pool. That's a good base for an AA-style high-risk, high-reward draft.

I'd be shocked if we dealt either of them in a playoff race, particularly as Bautista likely doesn't fetch top-end pitching prospects at this moment.

That is 100% what happens. Get the comp picks and rebuild. Shapiro knew this was going to happen, but my guess is he was happy with it because he could implement his "pay low and overachieve" CLE model.

I figure they'll find some more reclamation projects in the offseason for a rotation of Stroman, Estrada, and Happ.

I could see a Mike Napoli in EE's DH spot, a return of Rajai Davis to the OF.

[The_Hater]

Hopefully Bautista is dealt for blue chip pitching. You can understand Edwin landing elsewhere on the open market and his need to stay put for playoff run, but retaining both and getting nothing for them would be tragic.

Not quite nothing...we'd QO both, and consequently would get two comp round picks (somewhere from 30-45) and an extra $3.5-4.0m in bonus pool. That's a good base for an AA-style high-risk, high-reward draft.

I'd be shocked if we dealt either of them in a playoff race, particularly as Bautista likely doesn't fetch top-end pitching prospects at this moment.

That is 100% what happens. Get the comp picks and rebuild. Shapiro knew this was going to happen, but my guess is he was happy with it because he could implement his "pay low and overachieve" CLE model.

I figure they'll find some more reclamation projects in the offseason for a rotation of Stroman, Estrada, and Happ.

I could see a Mike Napoli in EE's DH spot, a return of Rajai Davis to the OF.

I really wish people wouldn't base everything they think Shapiro is going to do based on what happened in Cleveland. The Indians were a bottom 5-7 payroll team for most of his tenure while the Jays are in the top half of payroll in MLB. Two different money situations which allow for much different baseball decisions. Plus we don't know what the Jays payroll will be next year but with more money flowing in now I'm willing to bet it rises a lot more than people seem to think and we'll be firmly in the top 5-10 with other big markets but below the crazy spenders in the top 4.

Sorry for the rant.

[babystewie]

damn they're already lowkey recruiting him

There's nothing low key about it. He's obviously Boston's heir to Ortiz - Dombrowsky is going to keep poaching from the Jays as long as he has the deepest pockets in the AL.