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Thoughts?

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1121477?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Rbk_3 wrote:Thoughts?

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1121477?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I thought he made no adjustments with Cleveland and got out managed twice in the ALCS two years in a row. But hey if Shapiro backs him, I'm ok with it.

Yogz_GM wrote:

Rbk_3 wrote:Thoughts?

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1121477?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I thought he made no adjustments with Cleveland and got out managed twice in the ALCS two years in a row. But hey if Shapiro backs him, I'm ok with it.

Just this game...

1. Start Navarro, it can't get worse than Martin at this point
2. Why is Bautista in the field and Upton at DH?
3.why in gods name didn't he pinch run Pompey for Navarro? He would have beat that out at 2nd

Getting outmanaged by Francona and Yost isn't really saying much. They're pretty good.

Gibby didn't lose us this series though. The bullpen, where he has the biggest impact in terms of decisions, was perfect.

8 runs in 5 games, you cant blame him for this at all. I'm totally fine with him coming back.

Rbk_3 wrote:

Yogz_GM wrote:

Rbk_3 wrote:Thoughts?

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1121477?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I thought he made no adjustments with Cleveland and got out managed twice in the ALCS two years in a row. But hey if Shapiro backs him, I'm ok with it.

Just this game...

1. Start Navarro, it can't get worse than Martin at this point
2. Why is Bautista in the field and Upton at DH?
3.why in gods name didn't he pinch run Pompey for Navarro? He would have beat that out at 2nd

Pretty much none of this mattered...and it's speculation on the last point. The Jays simply did not hit...0 runs does not win you any game.

Gibby was not the problem this series...the bats were. He earned at least another year in my books too.

TR50 wrote:

Rbk_3 wrote:

Yogz_GM wrote:

I thought he made no adjustments with Cleveland and got out managed twice in the ALCS two years in a row. But hey if Shapiro backs him, I'm ok with it.

Just this game...

1. Start Navarro, it can't get worse than Martin at this point
2. Why is Bautista in the field and Upton at DH?
3.why in gods name didn't he pinch run Pompey for Navarro? He would have beat that out at 2nd

Pretty much none of this mattered...and it's speculation on the last point. The Jays simply did not hit...0 runs does not win you any game.

Gibby was not the problem this series...the bats were. He earned at least another year in my books too.

So the manager can't tell the batter to stop swinging at everything and take some pitches?

Gibby isn't going anywhere. Nor should he. He's not perfect but most of his moves have the long game in mind. He keeps pitchers from. Wing overused and allows slumping hitters to play through slumps.

As for people all over Jacoby, the Jays unexpectedly had the best offense in the league in 2015 (his first season with Toronto) and one of the beat offenses said of all time. His success in that season might be the number one reason for the criticism he's receiving now. But with such an old lineup, how much of the decline was age?

Yogz_GM wrote:

TR50 wrote:

Rbk_3 wrote:
Just this game...

1. Start Navarro, it can't get worse than Martin at this point
2. Why is Bautista in the field and Upton at DH?
3.why in gods name didn't he pinch run Pompey for Navarro? He would have beat that out at 2nd

Pretty much none of this mattered...and it's speculation on the last point. The Jays simply did not hit...0 runs does not win you any game.

Gibby was not the problem this series...the bats were. He earned at least another year in my books too.

So the manager can't tell the batter to stop swinging at everything and take some pitches?

That's not how baseball works and that's not part of his job. You can't hold the bat for the players and you can't make what amounts to split second decisions for them during at bats. As it is, the Jays have been the most patient team in the AL he past 2 years leading the regular season in walks. Hard to be more patient than that.

Good choice.

Yogz_GM wrote:

TR50 wrote:

Rbk_3 wrote:
Just this game...

1. Start Navarro, it can't get worse than Martin at this point
2. Why is Bautista in the field and Upton at DH?
3.why in gods name didn't he pinch run Pompey for Navarro? He would have beat that out at 2nd

Pretty much none of this mattered...and it's speculation on the last point. The Jays simply did not hit...0 runs does not win you any game.

Gibby was not the problem this series...the bats were. He earned at least another year in my books too.

So the manager can't tell the batter to stop swinging at everything and take some pitches?

The problem was generally the opposite. Way too many times we saw someone take a fastball right down the middle in a hitter's count.

I'm fine with Gibbons coming back. However you can't come back with the same team again next year. Changes must be made. We need to get younger. Our pitching is fine. It's the hitting that was a problem this season. Let go of hitting coach Brook Jacoby but keep Pete Walker as the pitching coach.

I'm upset about the lack of fundamentals by his players. With so many hits and 1/2 run games, why could he not execute a few manufactured runs. Its what killed us last year, so he knew it would be important. Maybe his team is too old and veteran to learn new tricks.

Gibbons is coming back because there is no reason to let him go when next season is so uncertain. You keep him around and use him as the fall guy next year if it turns out that this team undergoes retooling and ends up "disappointing" relative to the past two seasons.

Chevy Chase wrote:I'm upset about the lack of fundamentals by his players. With so many hits and 1/2 run games, why could he not execute a few manufactured runs. Its what killed us last year, so he knew it would be important. Maybe his team is too old and veteran to learn new tricks.

Fundamentals are primarily taught in the minor leagues so that has very little to do with Gibbons.

When people are talking about the poor fundamentals on this team, other than bunting, what is it they're talking about though? The Jays are a good defensive team for the most part. They're not a fast team that steals bases but they have a lot of smart base runners. And when you have a team full of power hitters, you don't want them laying down too many bunts anyways. The team just wasn't built that way.

Yogz_GM wrote:

Rbk_3 wrote:Thoughts?

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1121477?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I thought he made no adjustments with Cleveland and got out managed twice in the ALCS two years in a row. But hey if Shapiro backs him, I'm ok with it.

What adjustments can you make when no one is hitting? Put in Goins? Put in Pompey? If Bautista, Edwin, Martin, Tulo, Pillar are all hitting sub 0.200, while your pitching ERA is 2.4, there is literally nothing a manager can do.

The_Hater wrote:That's not how baseball works and that's not part of his job. You can't hold the bat for the players and you can't make what amounts to split second decisions for them during at bats. As it is, the Jays have been the most patient team in the AL he past 2 years leading the regular season in walks. Hard to be more patient than that.

Interestingly, for all the talk of "manufacturing runs" through smallball, Cleveland really didn't do any of that successfully, either. Two stolen bases in the series, both from Rajai Davis, with one caught stealing and a pickoff...that's not good! They had three sac bunts in the series; none resulted in a run scored. Their team batting average for the series was .167, and their on-base percentage was in the low .220s, so they weren't exactly shortening up their approach to get guys on. They hit .143 with RISP.

So how'd they score? Power! Their 6 HRs accounted for more than half their runs. 10 of the 12 came off XBHs. They weren't smallballing us...they were marginally better at being complete trash at the plate interspersed with clobbering balls.

Schad wrote:

The_Hater wrote:That's not how baseball works and that's not part of his job. You can't hold the bat for the players and you can't make what amounts to split second decisions for them during at bats. As it is, the Jays have been the most patient team in the AL he past 2 years leading the regular season in walks. Hard to be more patient than that.

Interestingly, for all the talk of "manufacturing runs" through smallball, Cleveland really didn't do any of that successfully, either. Two stolen bases in the series, both from Rajai Davis, with one caught stealing and a pickoff...that's not good! They had three sac bunts in the series; none resulted in a run scored. Their team batting average for the series was .167, and their on-base percentage was in the low .220s, so they weren't exactly shortening up their approach to get guys on. They hit .143 with RISP.

So how'd they score? Power! Their 6 HRs accounted for more than half their runs. 10 of the 12 came off XBHs. They weren't smallballing us...they were marginally better at being complete trash at the plate interspersed with clobbering balls.

Well then Gibbons should have manufactured more home runs.

I wouldn't have been that happy or angry if he stayed or left although if this team is going to look very different next year I think a new face would probably have been the better play.

I know Gibby not pinch running Pompey probably ended up having no tangible outcome on the game but it doesn't excuse not making the switch. A managers job is to make the right moves in games within reach. Down by 7 I don't care, down by 3 it's a failure to make the clearly right move. We were very close to missing the wildcard spot, 3-4 brain dead decisions like that over the course of a season can end up costing you a playoff spot.

Why sign an expensive manager if you are not re-signing your expensive RF (and maybe your expensive 1B/DH)?