Why Jose should give Jays a Discount

North_of_Border · Post #1 » by **North_of_Border** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:37 pm

Note to Jose:

You are not a MLB great. You will NOT make the MLB Hall of Fame. Most fans in US markets consider you a villain. However, you are a Toronto Blue Jays great. You will go into the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame. You as big a baseball star as it gets in all of Canada.

You are not gonna get the superstar contract in any market after this season you had. 25+ million per season you were demanding. Probably in the 17-18 million range it'll be. short term too. So why not take 15-16 million from the home team. Say 2-3 years.

In some other market, you will have 1 or so great season, and then regress and be a dead contract. The fans will Boo you into retirement. That's where Toronto comes in. In Toronto even if you bomb, fans will appreciate you for your past. You will likely get your name posted on the 5th deck in the Rogers Centre. You will get the superstar respect onto retirement that David Ortiz got in Boston. You will be as big as Roberto Alomar, even if you never win a World Series.

It's time to build a legacy as you enter your down years.

No?

KL78192020 · Post #2 » by **KL78192020** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:37 am

No. This is his last contract. Go for the money.

cram · Post #3 » by **cram** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:14 am

Let him go and sign EE.

Post #4 » by **JaysRule15** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:46 am

Before we start looking at things from Bautista's point of view, I think it's fair to question if it's even worth it to bring Bautista back on a 2-3 year deal with an AAV of 16+ million. The guy provided a 1 WAR this year in 116 games, and while I get that he was dealing with injuries, the fact that he's getting up there in age is also a factor.

Bautista will be 36 on Opening Day next year. He can no longer adequately play defense in right field and his former cannon of an arm is a shadow of itself. On offense, his SLG and OPS both dropped nearly a 100 points. His OBP is still good, but when pitchers start figuring out that he can no longer crush mistakes like he used to, they'll challenge him more and those walks will also begin to decrease.

While there's a chance Bautista could bounce-back and put up similar stats to what he did in 2015, it's even more likely that what we saw in 2016 was the start of a decline due to age and injuries catching up to him. If that's the case, giving Bautista a 3 year deal in the $60 million range might not be worth it to the team.

Plus, it's worth noting that Shapiro and Atkins owe Bautista no loyalty (like AA might have). They'll be judging him more based on his recent accomplishments rather than the overall stats he's put up with the franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to move on, and invest that $16 million in a lefty bat that we really need.

I would give Bautista a one year qualifying offer. If he declines, we get a draft pick and let some other team overpay for Bautista. If he accepts, we get a hitter with good credentials who will be motivated to have a bounce-back season and re-establish his value. If he's horrible next year, then we can cut our losses at the end of 2017 and move on.

I wonder how much Bautista is kicking himself right now for not seriously talking about an extension when Shapiro and Atkins approached him about it in early 2016. After his 2015 season, he was guaranteed to get at least a three year deal minimum from the Jays. Dude cost himself millions by deluding himself into thinking he was worth a 5 year, $150 million or whatever it was contract. There was no way he was getting 5 years from anyone, regardless of how his 2016 season went.

Natural11 · Post #5 » by **Natural11** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:51 am

It might be in our best interest to let him walk, particularly if Edwin re-signs. This line-up needs to change a bit, otherwise 2017 will just be a repeat of this year. We played some of our best baseball this year when Jose was on the DL, not because Carrera is a better player than Jose, but because this line-up needs a scrappy hitter more than it needs another home run hitter.

The_Hater · Post #6 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:25 pm

North_of_Border wrote:Note to Jose:

You are not a MLB great. You will NOT make the MLB Hall of Fame. Most fans in US markets consider you a villain. However, you are a Toronto Blue Jays great. You will go into the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame. You as big a baseball star as it gets in all of Canada.

You are not gonna get the superstar contract in any market after this season you had. 25+ million per season you were demanding. Probably in the 17-18 million range it'll be. short term too. So why not take 15-16 million from the home team. Say 2-3 years.

In some other market, you will have 1 or so great season, and then regress and be a dead contract. The fans will Boo you into retirement. That's where Toronto comes in. In Toronto even if you bomb, fans will appreciate you for your past. You will likely get your name posted on the 5th deck in the Rogers Centre. You will get the superstar respect onto retirement that David Ortiz got in Boston. You will be as big as Roberto Alomar, even if you never win a World Series.

It's time to build a legacy as you enter your down years.

No?

This is the same guy who was demanding (apparently) $150 million last spring and stating that it was non-negotiable. Can't imagine he's about to flip 180 degrees and start worrying about his Jay's legacy.

LLJ · Post #7 » by **LLJ** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:40 pm

IF I were Jose, I wouldn't give the Jays a discount. As a fan of course I'd love to see him retire as a Jay, but putting myself in his shoes, I wouldn't settle for less.

COY0607 · Post #8 » by **COY0607** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:04 pm

Someone give me an adequate explanation on why we even want JB back, even if it's on a 15M contract

He gives us very little going forward

The_Hater · Post #9 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:29 pm

COY0607 wrote:Someone give me an adequate explanation on why we even want JB back, even if it's on a 15M contract

He gives us very little going forward

Because he's still a quality MLB hitter (statistically) dispute what some fans seem to think.
Because tons of older players who have been written off Duringdown season have bounced back to their previous level. Including David Ortiz.
Because a one year contract is a very low risk investment and lines up with one more year of contention before a rebuild
Because we don't have anyone either in the pipeline or one the roster who can adequately replace his offense.
Because the free agent class is very weak so finding a replacement for him will likely be expensive and would tie up a multi year contract

I'm not saying that I want Jose back, I'm not sure I do, but I think that people who are ready to throw him out with the garbage just aren't thinking rationally. And if he took the qualifying offer I think that would be pretty good for the Jays

Skin Blues · Post #10 » by **Skin Blues** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:10 pm

COY0607 wrote:Someone give me an adequate explanation on why we even want JB back, even if it's on a 15M contract

He gives us very little going forward

He's a great hitter and we need great hitters. Even with him, Saunders and Eddie this year we weren't nearly the offensive powerhouse we were in 2015. Take those three away and things get ugly, especially if Russell Martin remains a pumpkin. We aren't locked into anybody at 1B/DH and he could fill either spot. And in a pinch he can play RF, and looking at our options, it's very likely we'll be in need of an extra OF at some point in the season.

There's a team discount already in effect because we only need to give up the opportunity cost of getting a sandwich pick to keep him, which is considerably less valuable than other teams that would have to give up their #1 pick (top 10 exempt, but terrible teams are unlikely to sign him anyway). Essentially it would cost us up to $10M less in lost-draft-pick cost.

Also, he is unlikely to get an offer of 3+ years, unlike the other guys we could sign like Eddie, Reddick, etc. And a 2 year contract suits us perfectly as our window pretty much extends to 2018 and then abruptly ends in 2019 as Donaldson leaves and Stroman/Sanchez/Osuna/Travis/Pillar all enter their final two (highly expensive) years of arbitration and Tulo and Martin are old af and likely not contributing to any significant degree.

It makes sense to keep him.

PopAGat · Post #11 » by **PopAGat** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:25 am

I want him gone. I appreciate what he did for this team in terms of solidifying ourselves around Baseball but quite frankly, I'm tired of his trash talking, his big talk, his less than satisfactory performance. Just everything. He's grown to be a tiresome act for me.

At this point, I'd rather much have Napoli than JB.

LLJ · Post #12 » by **LLJ** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:19 pm

I don't mind his trash talking, in fact part of me really likes that he's hated for that. But his fielding skills have deteriorated and he's actually pretty injury prone. IMO he's strictly a DH calibre player now.

Asif16 · Post #13 » by **Asif16** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:57 pm

I dont even want Jose back. No need for Saunders either. We need to solely focus in on resigning EE. Then focus on getting an lefty outfielder who can hit for average and has decent power. This team badly needs contact hitters. My trade target would be Charlie Blackmon from the rockies. My free agent target would be one of Reddick/Eaton.

Blackmon DH
Donaldson 3B
EE 1B
Tulo SS
Reddick/Eaton RF
Martin C
Upton LF
Pillar CF
Travis SB

Decent lineup