RA Dickey Leaving Blue Jays, Signs With Atlanta Braves

[zilby]

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Not that it wasn't practically a foregone conclusion, but still. At last, the arguments can be put to rest. Thanks for four years, Robert Allen!

Spoiler:

The Dickey arguments will likely never be put to rest.

[T-d0t]

How about his bff Thole?

[Mak]

Best news so far this offseason.

[S.W.A.N]

It is too bad that he regressed while with the Jays. He was a great innings eater and is a great spirit. Wish him the best in Atlanta..

I don't think our starters will miss a beat, and it seems like starting pitching is the one area where we actually have some young guys in the system that can step up.

[super_balls]

Nice

[The_Hater]

Great person. A healthy, above average starter here for his first 3.5 seasons although that wasn't enough to keep his critics happy.

Unfortunately he will forever be linked to AA's worst trade as the Jay's GM.

[Mak]

In a vacuum maybe he was above average, not when you consider Tohle was part of the package. I dont get why people continue to leave that part out.

[The_Hater]

In a vacuum maybe he was above average, not when you consider Tohle was part of the package. I dont get why people continue to leave that part out.

Because you're presenting an argument that doesn't tell the entire story.

Thole wasn't Dickey's personal catcher all 4 seasons and when he was he didn't always hit as poorly as he did last season. Every starting catcher in MLB takes 30-40 games off every season and all backup catchers, in general, are poor hitters.

Even with your argument taken at face value, an above average starting pitcher for 35 starts a season being replaced by your typical 5th starter with a catcher with an OPS 100 points higher is not a good trade off. Novody in baseball effects the outcome of a game more than the the starting pitcher.

[Mak]

WAR... what is it good for? determining the value of players, thats what.

[Rapcity_11]

In a vacuum maybe he was above average, not when you consider Tohle was part of the package. I dont get why people continue to leave that part out.

Thole is a slightly below average back-up catcher. Why do you always leaves that part out?

[The_Hater]

WAR... what is it good for? determining the value of players, thats what.

Then take your own advice and compare Dickey with other teams 4-5 starters and Thole with other team's b/u catchers.

Dickey had a War himself between 2.0-2.5 his each of first 3 seasons in Toronto. Thole was generally between 0 and -0.5. Combined they were somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 in each of those first 3 seasons.

Hutchinson + Navarro in 2015 were a combined -1.2. Dickey + Thole in 2016, by far the worst season for both of them, were still a combined -0.3 war. And that didn't really become a problem until Dickey flopped after the Allstar break which is why they took him out of the rotation.

[tecumseh18]

The Dickey arguments will likely never be put to rest.

Sure they will. It was a dumb trade. No-one argues in favour of it.

TDA alone provoked a lively debate on the board while it was in play. But when Thor got added ( ), there was 100% consensus against the deal.

The only that stopped a mass board suicide at the time was that Syndergaard had been pitching in the notoriously hitter-friendly PCL, so it was hard to get an accurate read on him.

[IMAN5]

Great guy, high character, veteran leader, never complained.

But I will not miss seeing him and Thole in jays uniforms.

Best of luck in Atlanta, with our luck he'll start beasting the moment he joins a new team.

[Mak]

In a vacuum maybe he was above average, not when you consider Tohle was part of the package. I dont get why people continue to leave that part out.

Thole is a slightly below average back-up catcher. Why do you always leaves that part out?

Because its not true. Otherwise I would for sure mention it.

[Lateral Quicks]

The Dickey arguments will likely never be put to rest.

Sure they will. It was a dumb trade. No-one argues in favour of it.

TDA alone provoked a lively debate on the board while it was in play. But when Thor got added ( ), there was 100% consensus against the deal.

The only that stopped a mass board suicide at the time was that Syndergaard had been pitching in the notoriously hitter-friendly PCL, so it was hard to get an accurate read on him.

On the contrary, the majority of the board supported and/or justified the deal at the time. Only a handful of us including Mehar and I were thoroughly against it at the time.

It was a bad deal at the time, and remains a bad deal in retrospect. AA made an all-in move on a totally unproven core. That core proved not up to snuff, and it was all for naught. As I argued at the time, AA could have just kept his powder dry for the deadline, or signed one of the many middling free agents out there without sacrificing any or lesser prospect capital.

BTW, Thor had just finished the season in A ball, not AAA. If he'd been in AAA, it would have been an even worse trade.

As for the news, I wish him well. I've read his auto-biography and he certainly had a rough past, and he seems like a decent guy. A classic case of hating the player, not the person. I am really, really looking forward to not seeing him get the ball every fifth day.

[Rapcity_11]

In a vacuum maybe he was above average, not when you consider Tohle was part of the package. I dont get why people continue to leave that part out.

Thole is a slightly below average back-up catcher. Why do you always leaves that part out?

Because its not true. Otherwise I would for sure mention it.

Might want to actually look around at back-ups C's and what they produce...

[tecumseh18]

On the contrary, the majority of the board supported and/or justified the deal at the time. Only a handful of us including Mehar and I were thoroughly against it at the time.

I'm sure, cognitive dissonance being what it is, most of us tried to convince ourselves after it was announced that it was the sort of deal a win-now organization makes. But in the thread while the deal was being negotiated over a couple of days, adding Syndergaard was like a bomb dropping. And nobody likes a bomb.

BTW, Thor had just finished the season in A ball, not AAA. If he'd been in AAA, it would have been an even worse trade.

Ah, you are correct. Brain fart on my part. I kept following his stats after he joined the Mets organization, and was consoling myself that his ERA during the first year at AAA in Las Vegas was 4.60. But then it got better.

If this is to be the tribute thread, let us not forget the last half of 2015, when RA was untouchable. (Purely in retrospect, maybe we didn't need Price to make the playoffs that year, but how could AA have known at the time? Stroman returning was a pipe dream pooh-pooh'd by management, and Dickey's knuckleball was the dictionary definition of a high variance proposition).

Dickey started off that September four-game series in Yankee Stadium winning 2-1 (or was it 1-0?) and going most of the game if not the distance (too lazy to look up). His start in Game 4 against the Rangers - the second of three elimination games in a row - was terrific, which made bringing in Price at that point all that more controversial. His dives into the fans after the Game 5 win were pretty memorable. (Uh, let's just forget the start in the ALCS.) This season, he was part of the best rotation in the AL.

Thanks RA!

[Mak]

Thole is a slightly below average back-up catcher. Why do you always leaves that part out?

Because its not true. Otherwise I would for sure mention it.

Might want to actually look around at back-ups C's and what they produce...

You guys keep forgetting that other teams can put their back up catcher with their best pitcher to make up the loss in value. This is not the case here, having Thole as a single pitcher catcher is detrimental to the team, that's why neither were on the playoff roster.

As a stand alone RA you can make a case was average SP, and sure as a stand alone Thole was slightly bellow average catcher but when you are always forced to play them both together ......its not something a team wanting to win Wold Series should have.

[Rapcity_11]

Because its not true. Otherwise I would for sure mention it.

Might want to actually look around at back-ups C's and what they produce...

You guys keep forgetting that other teams can put their back up catcher with their best pitcher to make up the loss in value. This is not the case here, having Thole as a single pitcher catcher is detrimental to the team, that's why neither were on the playoff roster.

As a stand alone RA you can make a case was average SP, and sure as a stand alone Thole was slightly bellow average catcher but when you are always forced to play them both together ......its not something a team wanting to win Wold Series should have.

All that does is reduce their chances of winning the games their best pitcher starts. That's a miniscule impact, at best. You could just as easily flip that around at say, the Jays had their #1 catcher for all of Sanchez and Happ starts and used Thole on games they were likely to lose anyway. There's really no difference.

[Santoki]

It only took four posts before this thread turned into the exact same as every other one.

See ya, RA. Enjoy Atlanta.