EE to Cleveland

[C Court]

Jays may have been fortunate that Edwin turned them down, particularly if the compensatory pick turns out to be good.

With Edwin on the roster in 2019, the Jays would have had $60 million tied up in Edwin (37), Martin (37) and Tulo (35). And Tulo and Edwin would still be on the books in 2020.

Look at how Bautista regressed at age 36 and he's a fitness freak. Does anyone expect Edwin will be the same player he is today in 2019 or 2020?

[Kurtz]

I personally think that Morales/Pearce will outproduce Edwin/Smoak. Plus a much lower long term financial commitment.

I suspect Jay Bruce will be playing RF for us next season. He bats left and his 1 year contract looks right.

The comparison is actually backwards, as bringing back EE meant bye-bye Smoak. Not bringing him back means Smoak is platooning wit Pearce (as per Gibbons).

So the actual comparison would be: Morales/EE/Pearce vs Morales/Pearce/Bruce/(Smoak).

Which option would you prefer?

[JN]

I personally think that Morales/Pearce will outproduce Edwin/Smoak. Plus a much lower long term financial commitment.

I suspect Jay Bruce will be playing RF for us next season. He bats left and his 1 year contract looks right.

The comparison is actually backwards, as bringing back EE meant bye-bye Smoak. Not bringing him back means Smoak is platooning wit Pearce (as per Gibbons).

So the actual comparison would be: Morales/EE/Pearce vs Morales/Pearce/Bruce/(Smoak).

Which option would you prefer?

What exactly were they going to do with Smoak that would result in not having to pay him?

This is the one Shatkins mistake and it can't easily be solved.

[Kurtz]

What exactly were they going to do with Smoak that would result in not having to pay him?

The comparison is in regards to playing time. We're paying him regardless, but in the EE scenario he's playing in the minors.

[Lateral Quicks]

I personally think that Morales/Pearce will outproduce Edwin/Smoak. Plus a much lower long term financial commitment.

I suspect Jay Bruce will be playing RF for us next season. He bats left and his 1 year contract looks right.

I truly hope you're wrong. Over the last three seasons he's put up a wRC+ below 100 two times. Plus he's a guy who strikes out over 20% of the time. He would instantly become my least favourite player, even ahead of Smoak. I'd honestly rather spend the money elsewhere and roll with Pompey or Carrera if it comes to Jay Bruce.

[C Court]

So Edwin's agent is now trying to save face by saying that with US tax rates, his client can earn almost as much in three years with Cleveland as he would in four years in Toronto. What a load of crap.

There is no way Edwin would earn the same end dollars on $80 million in Toronto vs $60 million in Cleveland. Does he think EE was offered Canadian dollars by the Jays?

If Kinzer doesn't understand how cross border tax works after having his client play in Canada for 7 years, then he is unqualified to be a player agent.

[Skin Blues]

The difference between effective tax rates is pretty small, and it only applies to half of a team's games since your'e taxed based on the location of games. Edwin will get about $31M ($10.3M/year) after tax in Cleveland and would have got $39M ($9.7M/year) after tax in Toronto. Even if Trump lowers the federal tax rate by almost 7 percentage points, Edwin still would have taken home about $6M more after-tax if he signed with Toronto.

In reality, Edwin would have had to sign for 3/$68M in Cleveland to make the same money compared to 4/$80M in Toronto.

[Schad]

So Edwin's agent is now trying to save face by saying that with US tax rates, his client can earn almost as much in three years with Cleveland as he would in four years in Toronto. What a load of crap.

There is no way Edwin would earn the same end dollars on $80 million in Toronto vs $60 million in Cleveland. Does he think EE was offered Canadian dollars by the Jays?

If Kinzer doesn't understand how cross border tax works after having his client play in Canada for 7 years, then he is unqualified to be a player agent.

The surest sign that Kinzer knows he screwed up: he's spending more time talking about the deal he didn't make.

[C Court]

Also, Canada offers tax deferral vehicles and other tax reduction opportunities which are not available south of the border. So that differential shrinks even more if you use a CPA who understands cross border taxation.

[C Court]

So Edwin's agent is now trying to save face by saying that with US tax rates, his client can earn almost as much in three years with Cleveland as he would in four years in Toronto. What a load of crap.

There is no way Edwin would earn the same end dollars on $80 million in Toronto vs $60 million in Cleveland. Does he think EE was offered Canadian dollars by the Jays?

If Kinzer doesn't understand how cross border tax works after having his client play in Canada for 7 years, then he is unqualified to be a player agent.

The surest sign that Kinzer knows he screwed up: he's spending more time talking about the deal he didn't make.

Yup. He turned down $80 million from the Jays and intead took $60 million from Cleveland. KInzer is also talking glowingly about Oakland's 2 yr/$50 million offer like it blew their socks off.

Fact is that Edwin needed to secure as many guaranteed dollars now, because in three years he is not signing a new big dollar contract - even for one year. He should fire his agent.

[C Court]

Just heard Steve Phillips on TSN radio. He said that Kinzer's initial counter to the Jays offer was 4/$100M. Kinzer even talked about 5/$125M which scared away the Bosox and Astros. Phillips also said the Jays gave Edwin ample time to accept their offer.

Bottom line, he feels this was a massive misplay by the agent. Phillips was surprised that he pulled off 3/$60M deal because the market had dried up. He's not sure who the Indians were bidding against. He'd heard that Edwin might have to settle for as low as $15m/yr.

Long term and even short term, Phillips think the Jays will be fine once they plug a few holes. Plus their lineup will be more balanced.

Next on the Jays to-do list is to sign Josh long term. If that doesn't happen in the next year, then Phillips says plan B should be to trade him for young assets.

[cram]

Smoak is a part time player in 2017.

And depending how Edwin plays over the next 4 years, it might be the Jays who dodged the bullet. It took less than 12 months to realize what a bullet we dodged in Price.

Price got $217M , Edwin got 65. You're right, very similar.

Hard to believe how badly you missed the point there.

Likewise.

David Price was signed for 7 yrs. Edwin 3 yrs. The magnitude of the "bullet" is very, very different. Boston is on the hook for 6 more seasons. I'm not sure how that is remotely comparable.

[polo007]

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It took Billy Beane to get things moving.

The Cleveland Indians stepped up with an uncharacteristically big offer to land Edwin Encarnacion as a free agent. But it took a late push from the Oakland A's head honcho to get things moving and push the Indians' negotiations over the top.

Encarnacion's agent, Paul Kinzer, told ESPN.com that the agreement came together quickly Thursday night, and that the Athletics and Texas Rangers were in the running to sign Encarnacion until the "last minute."

"Billy made this tough," Kinzer said. "It was a hard decision. He really got creative and came on strong down the end and really made a push. Edwin turned down more money, and it came down to Cleveland being closer to home [in the Dominican Republic].

"The one thing I'll give Billy: When he jumped in, he jumped in with both feet and really jump-started the process. He wasn't just flirting -- he was dating."

Kinzer confirmed reports that Encarnacion's contract with Cleveland is for three years and a guaranteed $65 million, including a $5 million buyout. The contract has a $25 million club option for 2020 that could bring the overall value of the agreement to $85 million.

Encarnacion is currently at home in the Dominican and is hoping to travel to Cleveland early next week to complete his physical exam and finalize the deal, Kinzer said.

[Schad]

it came down to Cleveland being closer to home [in the Dominican Republic]

Another free agent lost to Cleveland's vaunted proximity to Latin America.

[Trilogy]

it came down to Cleveland being closer to home [in the Dominican Republic]

Another free agent lost to Cleveland's vaunted proximity to Latin America.

Yea, I still have no idea what the hell that line is about, lol.

[DreamTeam09]

So wait, he got 3yr 65+5=70 and we offered 4yr 80?

[Schad]

So wait, he got 3yr 65+5=70 and we offered 4yr 80?

He got $60+5 = $65m guaranteed over three, and we offered $80m over four guaranteed. Yeah.

[KL78192020]

So he just needs to sign a one year deal for $15 at 37 to break even with what the Jays would've given, not impossible especially if he only plays DH. It's a bigger loss for the Jays than it is for Eddy. Even if he only gets $10mil after the three years, with the tax rates being lower he should more than cover the difference.

Plus he now has a better shot at the world series!

[cram]

Different perspective from Rosie Dimanno, where she throws some blame at Shatkins for how they handled Encarnacion LAST offseason....

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2016/12/23/blue-jays-pay-huge-price-for-insulting-encarnacion-dimanno.html

The illustrious Jay, who wanted very much to stay a Jay, has taken his bats, balls and bazookas to Cleveland, the unforeseen disembarkation point of a free-agent odyssey that actually began in spring training when the club offered an insulting two-year contract extension. Encarnacion, unsurprisingly, told the team to stuff it.

He had one career shot at exploiting the spoils of free agency. At that point the club had exclusive bargaining rights with Encarnacion. They could have sewn up his future fealty. But the braintrust of Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins, cleaving to the false idol of analytics, tried a gambit so disrespectful to a proud man that Encarnacion shut down any further discussion for the rest of the year.

At every juncture of this benighted saga, it seems, both the Blue Jays and the agent managed to do exactly the wrong thing, dimming the prospects that Encarnacion would return to the organization where he became an uber-star.

Oh, there’s lots of blame to go around and the tale is being spun by duelling factions, the Jays adept at ameliorating the Encarnacion disaster — because that’s what it is — via the vast network of media acolytes whose paycheques are signed by Rogers, versus the “Who Me?” disingenuousness of Kinzer, mounting his counterattack.

Encarnacion was beloved in Toronto. There were no personality warts, no ego; only a quiet, commanding presence in the clubhouse and a steadfast source of electrifying offence on the field. He even delivered a decent first base. And, sentiment aside, you don’t just replace 239 homers and 679 RBIs.

All that currency built up with fans over the last two years — only a smidge of which can be credited to the new front-office regime in their 2016 debut — has been forfeited in this blundering off-season

[McBlunt]

What's done is done. I don't know how anyone can blame the Jays in this situation. If EE really wanted to come back then he would have. It wasn't like he was low balled by the Jays. He can't expect the jays to sit around and wait for him to try and grovel a few more million out of another team and then leaving us high and dry..

Exactly this is on Edwin & his Agent