RealGM

http://www.thescore.com/news/1262739

This started to come out yesterday, reports were kind of vague, now it seems to be coming together.

Osuna is moved to the 10-day DL

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/04/blue-jays-release-melvin-upton-jr-designate-mike-bolsinger.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The Blue Jays have released outfielder Melvin Upton Jr. and designated right-hander Mike Bolsinger for assignment, reports Shi Davidi of Sportsnet (Twitter link). The team has also placed closer Roberto Osuna on the 10-day disabled list. Meanwhile, infielder Ryan Goins and righties Ryan Tepera and Dominic Leone have earned roster spots.

The fact that Toronto has moved on from Upton is no surprise, as ESPN’s Buster Olney reported Saturday that he wouldn’t crack the club’s 25-man roster. The Blue Jays had been working to trade Upton, whom they acquired in a deal with the Padres last summer, but weren’t able to find a taker, leading to his release.

Would the team that had potentially traded for Upton have taken on his salary as well or would the Padres still been on the hook for that $16M?

pilkoids wrote:Would the team that had potentially traded for Upton have taken on his salary as well or would the Padres still been on the hook for that $16M?

The Padres would have still been on the hook.

torontoaces04 wrote:

pilkoids wrote:Would the team that had potentially traded for Upton have taken on his salary as well or would the Padres still been on the hook for that $16M?

The Padres would have still been on the hook.

Additionally, if Upton makes a major league roster, we'll only be on the hook for $1m less whatever that other team pays him. Thus, if he signs a minor league deal that pays the minimum should he make the bigs, and gets on a roster by May or something, the breakdown for this season could end up being Padres ($16m), Jays ($600k), other team ($400k). His accountant would be having fits, if not for the fact that Upton will almost assuredly not make someone's roster.

This team loves Smoak and Goins WAY too much! With Barney, Goins wasn't needed. At least Upton brings speed off the bench.

Wo1verine wrote:This team loves Smoak and Goins WAY too much! With Barney, Goins wasn't needed. At least Upton brings speed off the bench.

Goins is out of options, and as a defensive MI there's a decent possibility he'd get picked up off waivers. Keeping both is likely a hedge in case one of Travis/Tulo were to suffer an injury.

Schad wrote:

Wo1verine wrote:This team loves Smoak and Goins WAY too much! With Barney, Goins wasn't needed. At least Upton brings speed off the bench.

Goins is out of options, and as a defensive MI there's a decent possibility he'd get picked up off waivers. Keeping both is likely a hedge in case one of Travis/Tulo were to suffer an injury.

If there's one thing I know about Travis and Tulo, it's that they're extremely durable!

vaff87 wrote:

Schad wrote:

Wo1verine wrote:This team loves Smoak and Goins WAY too much! With Barney, Goins wasn't needed. At least Upton brings speed off the bench.

Goins is out of options, and as a defensive MI there's a decent possibility he'd get picked up off waivers. Keeping both is likely a hedge in case one of Travis/Tulo were to suffer an injury.

If there's one thing I know about Travis and Tulo, it's that they're extremely durable!

If there's one thing i know about Goins is that he's apparently going to save the day should one of Tulo or Travis get injured!

The lack of speed on the bench is the one thing that concerns me with Upton now gone. Really hoping Pompey is up with the team soon to offset that.

Wo1verine wrote:This team loves Smoak and Goins WAY too much! With Barney, Goins wasn't needed. At least Upton brings speed off the bench.

I would have kept Upton over Goins too. Is Goins out of options?

The_Hater wrote:

Wo1verine wrote:This team loves Smoak and Goins WAY too much! With Barney, Goins wasn't needed. At least Upton brings speed off the bench.

I would have kept Upton over Goins too. Is Goins out of options?

Yeah out of options.

Wo1verine wrote:

vaff87 wrote:

Schad wrote:
Goins is out of options, and as a defensive MI there's a decent possibility he'd get picked up off waivers. Keeping both is likely a hedge in case one of Travis/Tulo were to suffer an injury.

If there's one thing I know about Travis and Tulo, it's that they're extremely durable!

If there's one thing i know about Goins is that he's apparently going to save the day should one of Tulo or Travis get injured!

haha too true. Really, could we do worse than him in an emergency where two of Tulo/Travis/Barney are unavailable for more than a day or two? The man can't hit. Surely there's somebody in Buffalo/Lansing that could fill in for a few games and manage the same 60 wRC+ that Goins brings to the table. When you assess the market and the answer is "multiple teams are interested in Ryan Goins", you trade Ryan Goins. Having Upton on the bench for LHP is more valuable than having a backup utility infielder, I don't care if nobody else wants him.

Skin Blues wrote:

Wo1verine wrote:

vaff87 wrote:
If there's one thing I know about Travis and Tulo, it's that they're extremely durable!

If there's one thing i know about Goins is that he's apparently going to save the day should one of Tulo or Travis get injured!

haha too true. Really, could we do worse than him in an emergency where two of Tulo/Travis/Barney are unavailable for more than a day or two? The man can't hit. Surely there's somebody in Buffalo/Lansing that could fill in for a few games and manage the same 60 wRC+ that Goins brings to the table. When you assess the market and the answer is "multiple teams are interested in Ryan Goins", you trade Ryan Goins. Having Upton on the bench for LHP is more valuable than having a backup utility infielder, I don't care if nobody else wants him.

It's less about the emergency one/two day stretches and more about the possibility of a longer stint where we'll need a third MI capable of being somewhere in the ballpark of replacement level, and Goins despite his remarkable year-to-year variability is basically the definition of replacement level. I mean, our minor league options suck. They suck worse than Ryan Goins, which is no small achievement. Our options are basically Gregorio Petit, a better hitter who grades out as a worse fielder, or Jake Elmore, who is as bad or worse at the plate than Goins (!) depending on one's preferred metric, and less defensively-capable.

Realistically, all the options involved suck. Upton isn't that much of a lefty masher over his career; he has about a 50 point platoon split, and while he's demonstrably better than Smoak in that regard, he's also not far removed from 'random RH corner OP we found on waivers' in most years. Like, his wRC+ against lefties over the past three seasons is about the same as Billy Burns, who is somewhere around 18th on the Royals' OF depth chart, and is most decidedly not known for his bat. It's about the same as Gregor Blanco, who couldn't make the D-Backs.

Given two pretty uninspired options, they went with positional scarcity, so we have a guy who can fill a role if one of our MIs explodes into a cloud of dust, and might fetch us a minor league lottery ticket in short order if someone else's MI explodes into a cloud of dust. If neither of those happens in the first few weeks of the season, and Barney doesn't turn back into the worst offensive player in baseball as he was a few years back as a full-timer, Goins probably gets shipped for cash, and we get Upton-by-another-name on the roster.

Really, the problem isn't Goins vs. Upton...it is, as with most things, Smoak. Having him on the roster means that we didn't have the money for a moderately more competent corner OF, and it's the reason we'll be slightly worse against lefties in April thanks to his gracing the lineup.

Right. I get that he's our best candidate for backup utility infielder. But... he's a backup utility infielder. And he's terrible. As bad as Upton is, he was our 3rd or 4th best outfielder (depending if you consider Pearce an outfielder). The difference between Elmore and Goins is negligible. Elmore projects as a better hitter by both Steamer and ZiPS. In terms of defense, it's really only 2B since both Tulo and Barney would have to go down at the same time for us to ever need another SS. The difference in 2B defense between Goins and Elmore (or anybody capable of playing 2B in the upper minors) is also negligible. Upton is bad, though not as bad as Goins, and we actually need an OF and can use a platoon guy vs LHP. We can't use Goins for anything. It's a minor quibble, but it's still pretty dumb. Maybe they had a real problem with Upton in the clubhouse, I suppose. But if the Yankees offered anything at all for him, which it appears they did, we should have taken it and run, and still had lefty mashing OF for a little while longer.

Skin Blues wrote:Right. I get that he's our best candidate for backup utility infielder. But... he's a backup utility infielder. And he's terrible. As bad as Upton is, he was our 3rd or 4th best outfielder (depending if you consider Pearce an outfielder). The difference between Elmore and Goins is negligible. Elmore projects as a better hitter by both Steamer and ZiPS. In terms of defense, it's really only 2B since both Tulo and Barney would have to go down at the same time for us to ever need another SS. The difference in 2B defense between Goins and Elmore (or anybody capable of playing 2B in the upper minors) is also negligible. Upton is bad, though not as bad as Goins, and we actually need an OF and can use a platoon guy vs LHP. We can't use Goins for anything. It's a minor quibble, but it's still pretty dumb. Maybe they had a real problem with Upton in the clubhouse, I suppose. But if the Yankees offered anything at all for him, which it appears they did, we should have taken it and run, and still had lefty mashing OF for a little while longer.

I'd agree, but Upton isn't a lefty-mashing OF. Over his career, he's a lefty-marginally-above-averaging, which is indeed a mouthful. Assuming this doesn't last long, it's also not a huge difference over a month...maybe 100 points of OPS between Smoak and Upton by their career numbers, over maybe 25-30 PAs.

Re: Elmore, my suspicion is that hitting eighth in the NL boosted his OBP last year; the projections have him getting on base quite a bit more than his .277 OBP over a decent sample size previous. Take that away and he's genuinely worse than Goins, or roughly the capability of a good hitting pitcher (but not a Bumgarner).

That said, I too would have taken the Yankees offer, without knowing what the Yankees offer was, for the simple reason that I would have derived an awful lot of pleasure from seeing Goins flailing on another AL East team. It's not a lost cause, however; assuming even modest health, our Goinsian nightmare will be over in relatively short order, and with a performance differential likely being measurable only with the use of a microscope. And I'm also intrigued by the possibility that we're waiting for a bidding war over Ryan Goins, if only because I just got to type 'bidding war over Ryan Goins'.

Schad wrote:

Wo1verine wrote:This team loves Smoak and Goins WAY too much! With Barney, Goins wasn't needed. At least Upton brings speed off the bench.

Goins is out of options, and as a defensive MI there's a decent possibility he'd get picked up off waivers. Keeping both is likely a hedge in case one of Travis/Tulo were to suffer an injury.

This is also a long-term move. Barney is a FA after this year, Goins has 4 years of control. Barney is likely worth 4 million on open market next year, Goins will cost 500k.