ST: Dan Shaughnessy @ Dan Shulman | June 30, July 1-2

[Natural11]

wow this forum is dead.

This is a tough team to watch when they're struggling. In many ways, it's more painful watching this team fail than a team that's young and rebuilding. At least with some young guys out there in a rebuild situation your expectations are low and you're focusing on the positives.

Personally, I've been PVR'ing the games so I can skip through them. That way when they put Loup out there in a tie game, I can skip right past the carnage and save myself some angst.

[C Court]

Estrada was consistently at a 55/45 ball to strike ratio for his 4 innings and it wasn't like he was missing the strike zone by just a little or simply getting bad calls.

[dagger]

wow this forum is dead.

This is a tough team to watch when they're struggling. In many ways, it's more painful watching this team fail than a team that's young and rebuilding. At least with some young guys out there in a rebuild situation your expectations are low and you're focusing on the positives.

Personally, I've been PVR'ing the games so I can skip through them. That way when they put Loup out there in a tie game, I can skip right past the carnage and save myself some angst.

That's pretty much how I feel. This team is so dependent on the home run, they can go three, four, five innings without doing anything offensively, and you have no expectations that anything will happen. The home run is exciting when it happens, it gets Buck out of his stupor, but the long in-between periods of putrid-ness are hard to take. As soon as we start getting some athletic young talent like the Red Sox and Yankees have, the games will be easier to watch. That doesn't mean instant success, it took the young Astros a few years of progressive recovery and experience to become the dominant team they are now. Having a couple of very high draft choices turn out well (Carlos Correa, Alex Bregman ) helped. Then again, the Mark Appel miss and Brady Aiken signing fiasco might have stretched things out a little bit. I think we have better management.

[dagger]

So basically, in the hole again, down 2-0 in the first. What's our first inning ERA? It must be about the worst in baseball.

[Schad]

So basically, in the hole again, down 2-0 in the first. What's our first inning ERA? It must be about the worst in baseball.

6.04 ERA in the 1st. 3rd isn't much better at 5.58. No other inning is close...corresponds to the times when our starters are often facing the top of opponents' orders the first and second times through, I suppose.

[Schad]

The "Smoak is our offense" jokes weren't meant to suggest that no one else should do a damned thing, FYI. You too could also be our offense, people with bats!

[BramptonYute]

nice play jose

[dagger]

So basically, in the hole again, down 2-0 in the first. What's our first inning ERA? It must be about the worst in baseball.

6.04 ERA in the 1st. 3rd isn't much better at 5.58. No other inning is close...corresponds to the times when our starters are often facing the top of opponents' orders the first and second times through, I suppose.

While the optimists and shills keep reminding us how the Jays are only xxxx out of a wildcard spot, it wouldn't take much of a selloff for this team to earn a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft. (Okay, Philly pretty much has an unassailable lead on the first overall pick). It's not as if there is much talent in the high minors that can even fill in decently at this point. Buffalo sucks worse than the Jays and New Hampshire's collective offence is pretty punchless.

[Schad]

While the optimists and shills keep reminding us how the Jays are only xxxx out of a wildcard spot, it wouldn't take much of a selloff for this team to earn a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft. (Okay, Philly pretty much has an unassailable lead on the first overall pick). It's not as if there is much talent in the high minors that can even fill in decently at this point. Buffalo sucks worse than the Jays and New Hampshire's collective offence is pretty punchless.

Coming into today, we were 3.5 GB of the second Wild Card, and 2.5 ahead of the 5th-worst team in baseball. So yeah, we're definitely closer to the bottom than we are to the top.

[akakalakin]

While the optimists and shills keep reminding us how the Jays are only xxxx out of a wildcard spot, it wouldn't take much of a selloff for this team to earn a top 5 pick in the 2018 draft. (Okay, Philly pretty much has an unassailable lead on the first overall pick). It's not as if there is much talent in the high minors that can even fill in decently at this point. Buffalo sucks worse than the Jays and New Hampshire's collective offence is pretty punchless.

Coming into today, we were 3.5 GB of the second Wild Card, and 2.5 ahead of the 5th-worst team in baseball. So yeah, we're definitely closer to the bottom than we are to the top.

So many teams they would have to play better than to get wild card though.

Sucks to be a seller, but the time has come starting with JD.

[Steelo Green]

I think the time has come to sell. All parts, Donaldson included.

Sanchez, Stro, Osuna are my only untouchables, unless you can trade one of them for two extremely high level prospects.

[Schad]

So many teams they would have to play better than to get wild card though.

Sucks to be a seller, but the time has come starting with JD.

Indeed. We made our bargain, and it worked out relatively well with two ALCS appearances. But it's time to pay the piper.

[Natural11]

It's unfortunate that they'll have to sell low on so many of the bats. So many are underachieving this year and others (Tulo) may be untradeable.

[dagger]

In a first inning hole yet again.

Now sinking deeper. Really, an offensively challenged team whose starters can't keep them in games is pretty much looking for a high pick in the next draft. If they lose five of the next seven after today, they will be 10 games under .500 at the all-star break or pretty much right back where they were in late April.

[Scorpion King]

It's so painful to watch this awful team. I will stop watching for my own sake.

Hopefully attendance dwindles and Shapiro can start selling overpaid bums like Tulo, Martin and Bautista along with JD, Estrada, Happ and others

[Schad]

It's so painful to watch this awful team. I will stop watching for my own sake.

Hopefully attendance dwindles and Shapiro can start selling overpaid bums like Tulo, Martin and Bautista along with JD, Estrada, Happ and others

Martin might be movable. As an example, Washington has Matt Wieters this year and next (assuming Wieters picks up his player option, and I'm sure he does); swapping catchers would mean either a year and a half of his contract, but we could probably get some prospect value back and shave off some money.

Bautista, I dunno; someone might take him, but unless he goes on a hot streak and someone thinks he has returned to his past production, they probably aren't surrendering much. A league-average hitter who plays below-average defense at a power position is not terribly valuable, and he's 21st out of 27 qualifying RF in fWAR...aren't a lot of teams where he's an upgrade. Might need someone to have a corner OF go down long-term; the Rockies, if Carlos Gonzalez is out for weeks/continues to be inexplicably awful, perhaps.

[Lateral Quicks]

Yep, blow'er up.

[JaysRule15]

Well, the wear a Jays jersey in Baltimore plan backfired pretty hard. Ubaldo Jimenez stomped the hell out of us that day

[fouronesix22]

its time to sell. if shatkins doesnt see this **** now they never will

[Schad]

its time to sell. if shatkins doesnt see this **** now they never will

I'm confident that they know what they have to do, and came into this season with a pretty good idea of what their direction would be at the deadline. I'd even hazard a guess that there's a bit of relief that the team has made their decision for them.